Will I Have Podcast Sponsors in 2025?

Hours Categories Making Money

When I first started podcasting, I got sponsors absurdly fast. How fast, you ask?

Before my first episode went live.

In fact, within 6 months of launching, I landed several sponsors and in less than a year, my first 5-figure deal.

When people asked me how, I responded in a very frustrating way: all I had to really do was ask, and people gave me money.

The truth is a bit more complicated than that.

I had Already Done the Work of Forging Relationships

My podcast, then called How I Built It, was fully focused on the same niche where I had already made a name for myself: the WordPress space. When the show launched, I was already a twice-published author of WordPress books, and spoke at various WordPress conferences per year. In other words, people knew they could trust my work.

In other words, it was beneficial from a brand awareness standpoint just to be attached to my podcast.

Plus, my podcast offered way more value than a WordCamp, as I was often much cheaper, and reached more people over a longer timescale.

It was also a lot easier in 2017-2018 to get podcast sponsors — at least, I felt it was. Because of my deep network and good standing in the community, I didn’t need to work that hard to land sponsors.

I had already done the hard work over the past decade.

But the competition also wasn’t as stiff. Podcast Ads weren’t as formalized a thing as it is now.

Podcast Advent is presented by The Unstuck Sessions. Want to start 2025 off on the right foot? What if you had an expert ready to give you the exact steps you need to take to get unstuck — in your podcast, your business, and your process? You can with the Unstuck Sessions. Get the most valuable part of my coaching at an incredibly affordable price. Get Unstuck Today.

A lot has Changed Since I Started Podcasting

How I Built It, now called Streamlined Solopreneur, launched in late 2017. But that wasn’t my first podcast. From 2012-2015, I tried to make a different show work.

I’ll spare you the history lesson; it didn’t work.

However, podcasting saw its second big growth period during this time1. Serial and Lore both took off in 2014, and brought podcasting into the public consciousness more than anything before them.

When I launched How I Built It, podcasting was still a pretty niche thing, though. Granted, NPR launched a similarly named show, but they had been podcasting long before.

The point is things were pretty smooth sailing for me until around 2021-2022. Something changed in the podcast ads space that I don’t think can be attributed to the pandemic, or even the dreaded, economically related “R” word.

I, along with other podcasters, started to notice it got significantly harder to land sponsors. The gap might have started to widen between the most popular shows and everything else, or that advertisers started to see massive podcasts as worth the investment, but not niche podcasts.

But something was different. In fact, something was so different that I earned $0 from sponsorships in Q4 2022. And Q4 was usually when I made $15,000-30,000.

Ouch.

But something else happened, too.

My Podcast Changed in Name and Scope

In 2020-2021, I started to pull away from the WordPress space. I started talking to business owners more generally. I stopped talking about development and more about how busy, solopreneur parents can run a business while spending time with their family.

I got really into saving time, automating, and processes.

Then I started moving into the creator and podcaster space.

And finally, earlier this year, I renamed the podcast to Streamlined Solopreneur.

And while it was the right move, I’m more or less starting from scratch. My downloads have dipped. The relationships I formed in the WordPress space are not as well aligned in this space.

Plus, I started coaching a lot more.

2024 is the year my business has seen the most change, possibly since I made my first paid website back in 2002.

All of this impacts my approach to sponsors in 2025 and raises the question: will I have any?

Will I Have Sponsors in 2025?

The answer is probably not. I’m certainly not going to pursue them as aggressively as I have in years past, and I will be much more selective about who sponsors my show.

This year was the first time I felt like I did a disservice to many of my sponsors. Not knowingly, of course, but as campaigns progressed, the mismatch became evident. It’s largely because of the unexpected rebranding, and what I started to learn about my newer, or more recent, listeners.

When there’s a mismatch between the sponsor and the audience, everyone feels it. I as the host, feel some guilt that I’m promoting something that’s not a perfect fit.

The sponsor won’t achieve the goals they hope to achieve. And the audience feels left in the lurch. Most content consumers understand that ads support free content, but with podcast listeners, they also know that they can have better alignment than something like radio or TV.

And most podcaster listeners will tolerate, even enjoy, ads when they learn something new.

How Will I Monetize?

Now, if you’ve been following along, you’ll know this is the second income stream I’m potentially killing in a matter of weeks.

But I’ve talked many times before about my SMASH Framework. In fact, later in Podcast Advent, I’ll have an updated for 2025, digital remastered version of that article for you.

Instead, I’m going to focus on the affiliate, selling, and helping aspects of the SMASH framework to monetize my podcast.

As I pivot to fully focus on offerings that align even better with my podcast audience, I believe putting maximum effort into selling my stuff is the right plan. That means selling my coaching program and courses, and promoting tools that will make a massive impact on my audience.

Sunsetting the membership and spending less time on sponsorship allows me to prioritize those offerings.

That said, I’m not ruling out sponsorship completely.

Putting “Strategic” and “Partnership” Back in Sponsorship

Dynamic Ads are increasingly common on podcasts. Recently, I listened to an iHeartRadio show that had 4 (FOUR) minutes of dynamically inserted pre-roll ads.

To my friends at iHeart: that’s too much.

I also spent a number of brain cycles this year arguing against CPM and wondering if Dynamic Ads are the right approach for me.

Both of these things degrade the actual partnership you can forge with a sponsor. If they are just looking for impressions, that’s fine. But it doesn’t work for small, indy podcasters like me, and probably you.

What does work, you ask?

Becoming a partner with the sponsor. There are a few things I will definitely try in 2025, granted I find the right brand to work with.

But I would rather not get too deep into those right now because I got the ideas from my friend and sponsorship coach, Justin Moore. And as it turns out, his article is next up for Podcast Advent.

So much like Wicked Part 1, you’ll have to wait for the thrilling conclusion of this small sponsorship series. Luckily, you don’t have to wait a year, though. It’s only One Short Day.

  1. Assuming we count 2007-2008ish the first one, when shows like Stuff You Should Know and Smart Passive Income launched. ↩
Joe Casabona

Podcast Systems Coach

Joe Casabona is a podcast and automation coach who helps coaches, course creators, and authors grow their podcasts into authority-building lead generators. He does that through expert-tested systems that come with 10 years experience podcasting, 15 years teaching, and over 20 years working the web.

Related

  • Why You Should Publish More Solo Episodes in 2025

    Hours Categories Content

    As I look towards the 2025 baseball season (after a crushing end for my Yankees in 2024), I find myself thinking about how it relates to publishing my podcast.

    Like many things in life, both have a number of moving parts and contexts in which you want to change your approach.

    For example, in baseball, there are pitching coaches and hitting coaches. More granularly, they also have infield coaches and outfield coaches.

    You don’t want your pitcher to take the same throwing approach as your right fielder, unless you want them to get hurt.

    The same thing goes for podcasting — I usually publish interviews for Streamlined Solopreneur. But this year I made it a goal to do solo episodes 25% of the time.

    I got to 42% — with plans to increase to at least 50% in 2025.

    And much like having different coaches and approaches to hitting and pitching (one of the things that makes Shohei Ohtani such a unique player), you want to have a different approach to producing your interviews vs. solo podcast episodes.

    Podcast Advent is presented by The Unstuck Sessions. Want to start 2025 off on the right foot? What if you had an expert ready to give you the exact steps you need to take to get unstuck — in your podcast, your business, and your process? You can with the Unstuck Sessions. Get the most valuable part of my coaching at an incredibly affordable price. Get Unstuck Today.

    Why Publish Solo Episodes?

    There are plenty of reasons for any podcast — but especially podcasts that solve a problem — to do solo episodes, even if most of your episodes are interviews.

    Authority Building

    First and foremost, the spotlight is on you when you do a solo episode.

    When you have a guest, you make them the expert; there are lots of times when you should do that. On Streamlined Solopreneur, I have experts on to talk about areas I’m not very knowledgeable about. I also get fresh perspectives (for example, I’m not an email newsletter expert), and I learn from them.

    But if it’s your show, and you’re trying to build your authority, you need to make sure you put the spotlight on yourself too.

    For the Podcast Workflows podcast, it’s almost exclusively solo episodes because I want to position myself as the authority on saving time in your podcast — so it’s advice and deeper content.

    That’s also the reason I’m changing Streamlined Solopreneur considerably in 2025. I want it to be an authority builder and leads-driver for me.

    More Focused Content

    Solo podcast episodes can often end up being better content, too. I think there’s still this idea that podcasts need to be conversations. And beyond that, “casual conversations,” which usually means unedited, unstructured.

    This is bad content for most people. Joe Rogan is the exception, not the rule. And I’m not convinced his show isn’t edited.

    Instead, look at the interviews on 60 Minutes, Oprah, or The Tonight Show. Each of these shows/podcasts have interviews that are structured and edited for time and content. And they’ve all been doing interviews for decades.

    But they’re also a TON of work.

    A solo podcast episode allows you to focus in on a topic or problem, cut the meandering stuff that listeners won’t care about, and get right to the good stuff, without too much editing.

    Time-Saving Benefits

    It’s not just editing, though. There are other, considerable, time-saving benefits to recording solo podcast episodes.

    For one, you’re not scheduling with anyone, so there’s no finding a time to sit down and record. You can block the time that works best for you.

    You’re also not doing as much research, coming up with questions, or doing a pre-interview to ensure a good recording.

    On the post-production side, you don’t have to line up tracks, or jump through hoops to fix audio, or edit meandering conversation (probably). And it’s way easier if you’re doing video too.

    If I’ve planned my solo episodes properly, I don’t even send them out to my editor. I just clean up the audio, make some minor edits myself, and publish it.

    All this sounds pretty great, right? If you’re interested in trying it out, here’s the approach I recommend.

    Have a Simple, Segmented Show

    There’s nothing worse than staring at a blank screen. And even if you have a great idea, a great idea does not an episode make.

    So instead, I recommend having segments. This way you have a basic structure to follow every time.

    On Streamlined Solopreneur, I usually follow a simple structure of:

    • One Big Problem
    • One Small Fix
    • Feedback

    The big problem is something I am currently wrestling with, or have wrestled with in my business.

    The small fix is a positive step I’m talking to solve the big problem.

    Feedback is input from listeners, either from previous episodes, or that I solicited for the topic.

    The one caveat is I don’t limit myself to rigidly following this format. If I prefer a different outline, or I’m covering a topic that doesn’t fit neatly into the problem/fix/feedback box, I change it up.

    In the segments article, I liken podcast segments to segments you’d see on a radio show, or The Tonight Show. But The Tonight Show doesn’t follow the same format every night. They have different games and topics based on the guests, current events, and time of year.

    Your solo episodes can work the same way. Maybe you even have a list of potential segments, and build a solo episode, Lego-style, based on your topic.

    Listeners Don’t Want to Waste Their Time

    Here’s a bold claim I don’t have any data to back up — but it’s a gut feeling:

    When listeners know what to expect, they’re happier.

    I mean, there’s a reason why sitcoms have followed the same format for decades, right?

    Or why House and every Law and Order episode play out basically the same way every time.

    Or why my local radio station would do the radio contests at 6:30am and 7:30am every weekday morning.

    When you create predictability, you create habits. And when you introduce segments to your podcast — especially with solo shows — your listeners know what they’re getting.

    That means they don’t worry about wasting their time, and they’re more likely to consistently hit the play button.

    And that’s really the goal, right?

  • It’s Podcast Christmas Day

    Hours Categories News, Tips

    Now that we’ve been visited by the 3 ghosts, it’s time to have our, “Ebenezer Scrooge is a changed man,” moment.

    You didn’t think I’d end 24 days of podcast articles on doom and gloom, did you?

    There’s a lot to be Optimistic About

    We got a lot of great advice this December — not just from me, but from some wonderful podcasters and writers. I’m truly grateful for their contributions.

    And the reason a lot of the discussions are happening is because people care deeply about the podcasting space, and in times of change, these discussions are important.

    To close out this year of articles, I want to share a short list of what I’m excited about, and then my favorite podcasts of the year.

    What I’m Excited About

    YouTube and Spotify are forcing innovation in the space. Apple Podcasts has added some major features this year, like Transcripts, a web interface, and an actual Android app.

    RSS-based apps are also innovating. Over the last few years, we’ve seen a number of podcast apps and services close. Some are not viable; some rested on their laurels. A perfect example is Castro, who at this time last year looked like it was going the way of Google Reader.

    But then it was acquired, and significant resources were put into it. The same thing goes for Pocket Casts, which added a ton of features, and even Overcast, which did get a massive rewrite this year.

    Podcasting2.org also launched in an effort for to help more people understand what it means and how it can help the podcasting space.

    “Side by side” videos are OK. 18 months ago, I wouldn’t have said that. And my videos aren’t viewed a lot. But between Edison Research, Sounds Profitable, and some anecdotal evidence, listener habits are changing. I’ve certainly watched a lot more “talking head” videos on YouTube this year.

    That said, I think interviews are becoming less popular, and that excites me. You need to be a good interviewer to have a good interview podcast, and most people aren’t. Or at the very least, it takes a ton of work. Seeing more host/co-host podcasts is promising — I think it will make for better content, and better monetization options for independent podcasters.

    My Favorite Podcasts in 2024

    I’ll share my Listener Stats from Overcast (a new feature added late this year) in a minute, but they capture most by listening time, which doesn’t necessarily mean my favorites. Just the longest or most frequent.

    Here are my favorites in 2024:

    And here’s my most listened to podcasts:

    And with that, it’s time to close out 2024. Merry Christmas if you celebrate! And let me know in the comments: what are you most excited about in 2025?

  • Are Podcast Memberships Worth Doing?

    Hours Categories Making Money, Memberships

    When I first launched my podcast, I told myself that once I got to 100,000 downloads lifetime, I’d launch a membership — believing that was proof enough that people would support my work.

    Well, lucky…and unlucky…for me, I hit that milestone in 9 months. So I got to work. And by work, I mean I “borrowed” benefits and pricing from other podcasters, and I used Patreon, because that’s what everyone used at the time.

    I made a negligible amount of money and reached 4 people total. So I decided to fold it. I’d eventually relaunch it, but I continue to mold it into something people actually want.

    Last year was a wake-up call for me that my business relied too much on sponsorship money — something many podcasters have been wrestling with since the pandemic.

    And even though I’m trying to make a membership work, the trials and tribulations of launching a membership have me wondering: are podcast memberships worth doing?

    Or perhaps a more accurate question is: are small-audience podcast memberships worth doing?

    I think the answer is yes1, but you absolutely need to make the “small audience” distinction.

    When we model our memberships off big podcasts — those from Wondery, ATP, the Relay.fm shows, etc — we put ourself at a disadvantage because they are doing a volume play.

    They have hundreds of thousands — even millions — of listeners, many of whom are engaged.

    The value proposition for Wondery is almost too good to pass up if you like their shows. Less than $6 per month, you get access to their entire library — dozens of shows — ad free, with bonus content.

    Small audience memberships can’t do that. You’re creating too much content for too little money.

    How to Make a Small Audience Podcast Membership Work

    To make your membership worth it with a small audience, you need to do a few things:

    1. Offer a small number of benefits, many of which are low-effort for you and high-value for your listeners.
    2. Make at least one of those benefits high effort and high value.
    3. Charge way more than $5-10/month.
    4. Be everywhere.

    OK truth be told, I can’t really prescribe “be everywhere” yet. That’s my grand experiment for 2024.

    But the rest…that’s experience talking.

    I should also mention this is predicated on the fact that you’ve done some due diligence and know you have at least some people willing to pay for a membership from you. This is where a ​mailing list for your podcast​ really comes in handy.

    The Benefits

    Here’s where you don’t want to be: on the hook for creating a ton of content for 1 person.

    If no one signs up, fine. You have no one expecting you to deliver. But if one person signs up at $5/mo, suddenly you’re adding a bunch of extra effort for what…50 cents an hour?

    So most of your benefits should be easy to execute. Make your shows ad-free. Release the raw video. These are assets you already have, that you can slightly modify and release.

    What you’re not doing is committing to a 1,000 word essay every week for 1 person.

    This is also where I’m going to tell you to forget the community at first. An inactive community is a bad look. It signals to your members that either no one is there, or no one is engaged. Setting up a Discord is easy. Cultivating a community is hard.

    But truth be told, we’re still looking at benefits the wrong way. Because the benefits are not about what you want to do. It’s about what is valuable to your audience.

    That’s why you need, with a small audience, to make the benefits higher effort, but also higher value.

    Your ​podcast’s mission statement​ will help you sort out who you help and what problems you solve. Your membership benefits should take this even further.

    If you’re solving problems through conversation on your podcast, solve them with one-on-one, group, or async support in your membership.

    One clear signal that I’m on the right track with my membership benefits is the click through rate on Day 15’s email, where I gave you my automations database. I saw a 300% increase in CTR.

    So answer this: what’s a high impact benefit you can offer listeners of your podcast to turn them into members?

    Pricing

    Which brings me to the next thing: how do you price your membership?

    If you have 1,000 listeners and there’s a conversion rate of 1%, that gives you 10 people to start. So…is $50 (or even $100) per month enough for you to deliver everything you want to deliver?

    Probably not. But that’s why we’re thinking about the high impact benefit — high impact means higher price.

    My membership is undergoing big changes in 2024, largely in part due to the realizations I’ve made this year2. And while I have a handful of paying members who will continue to get what they’re paying for, I’m adding a new, higher impact level.

    It’s still an experiment (more on that in a bit), but it’s very much a data-backed experiment and not one based on vibes.

    Starting in 2024, my members are going to get more of me through group calls and monthly “Sprints” based on certain topics.

    This sort of high impact benefit should allow me to increase the price from where my membership started in January — $5/mo — to $100/mo.

    Those sprints will be based on my listeners’ biggest pain points (staying consistent, improving process, launching a better podcast, pivoting, etc).

    That increases a member’s value 1900%. Or put a different way, to make $100/mo, I’ll only need to sell 1 membership instead of 20.

    You Need to Experiment

    Based on data

    The truth is, you probably won’t get it right on the first try. But if you have conversations from your listeners, learn their pain points and what’s worth money to them, then implement something — even if it’s low tech at first — and gather feedback.

    The great thing about those early sign ups is they’ll be your biggest supporters. So you can be open with that about what you’re working on. That, coupled with a locked in lower price, and you should have some leeway to get your membership in tip-top shape.

    So, going back to our original question: Are podcast memberships worth doing? I think the answer is yes, if:

    1. The pricing is inversely proportional to your audience size (smaller audience = higher price).
    2. You do some up-front research on what to offer.
    3. You’re willing to experiment.
    4. You understand that we’re playing the long game here.

    I’m excited to experiment with my membership in multiple ways in 2024. And if you’re wondering…yes. ​My members will get a front row seat to those experiments​.

    1. I’m basically tripling down on my membership in 2024. ↩
    2. The same ones I’m sharing with you in this very article. ↩

  • Don’t Sacrifice Personal Connection

    Hours Categories AI

    As we enter the final stretch of Podcast Advent 2024, I want to give you a short, but important message about podcasting in 2025.

    The next 3 days will see my Christmas Carol-style Ghosts of Podcast Past, Present, and Future.

    But something that will remain at the forefront of our work is A.I.

    I was listening to a podcast on iHeartRadio — a network that produces incredible shows with far too many ads — when a very obviously AI-generated audio ads shows up.

    It was lifeless. Monotone. Disconnected. I can’t even tell you what the ad was about because I was so put off.

    Maybe I’m part of a small group of people who can detect it, or care…but I doubt it. The ad has strong uncanny valley vibes. They didn’t disclose that it was AI-generated. They tried to pass it off as a human.

    When I read The Coming Wave, the scenario that left the biggest impact for me wasn’t AI Agents that will be able to plan vacations or compile research completely autonomously. It wasn’t the computer viruses that will be able to find their vulnerabilities and rewrite them, making them harder to kill.

    It was a sentence about how AI combined with Biotech allows restaurants to replace wait staff with robots.

    I don’t know about you, but I had 3 thoughts:

    1. That makes perfect sense.
    2. That sucks for people who like being waiters and waitresses.
    3. This is another actualization of the continually withering social interactions we’re experiencing.

    We’re increasingly talking to robots, outsourcing creative work, and convincing ourselves that if we just train ChatGPT enough, it can sound exactly like us. We need to remember what makes life worth living and content worth consuming: the personal connection.

    It’s why listeners like host-read ads more, and it’s why people listen to our podcasts, read our books, and watch our videos.

    Let’s not forget that.

    Podcast Advent is presented by The Unstuck Sessions. Want to start 2025 off on the right foot? What if you had an expert ready to give you the exact steps you need to take to get unstuck — in your podcast, your business, and your process? You can with the Unstuck Sessions. Get the most valuable part of my coaching at an incredibly affordable price. Get Unstuck Today.

  • The Shure SM7B vs. the Shure MV7+: Which is Better?

    Hours Categories Gear

    I’ve been using the Shure SM7B as my main mic for the better part of a decade now, and I don’t foresee that changing anytime soon.

    However, when I bought that mic, there wasn’t the wealth of affordable, purpose-built podcasting mics there are now. And while I love the SM7B, I’m not ready to recommend it as the de-facto podcast mic anymore because it’s a $400 mic that requires perhaps another $300 worth of equipment, if not more.

    Meanwhile, the Shure MV7+ has gotten quite popular, is about 30% cheaper, and doesn’t require an interface or phantom power. In-fact, the MV7+ is the mic I’ve recommended to podcasters for those reasons—plus you have the option of XLR connectivity.

    However, I’d never used it myself, so I decided to give it a whirl, and compare it to the SM7B. In this video, I set out to answer: can you get away with the MV7+, or should you spend the extra money?

    Podcast Advent is presented by The Unstuck Sessions. Want to start 2025 off on the right foot? What if you had an expert ready to give you the exact steps you need to take to get unstuck — in your podcast, your business, and your process? You can with the Unstuck Sessions. Get the most valuable part of my coaching at an incredibly affordable price. Get Unstuck Today.

    Here’s how I ran the test:

    1. I used the MV7+ via both USB-C and XLR
    2. I read phonetic panograms (that is, sentences that cover all the sounds in the English language) with the MV7+ in both modes, plus the SM7B.
    3. I tried to keep the test with the XLR settings as even as possible, and noted any changes in my interface for them.

    So what did I conclude? Well, I’d strongly recommend you watch the video and listen for yourself, but ultimately, while the SM7B did sound better in my tests, the MV7+ did a fine job. You can definitely get that mic and sound great.

    However, if you have the money and want any even better sound (and a more forgiving shock mount), you can’t beat the SM7B.

  • The Biggest Misconception In Podcast Marketing

    Hours Categories Growth

    Today’s article was written by my friend Jeremy Enns! Originally published at Podcast Marketing Academy

    It’s hot.

    You’re lying on the beach trying to enjoy your well-deserved (and long-overdue) vacation…

    But you’re distracted by the never-ending beads of sweat running down your arms, your back, your face.

    One drips off your nose onto the open book you’re trying to immerse yourself in, leaving a splotch in the center of the page.

    You knew it would be hot.

    That’s why you splurged for the beach chair with the umbrella. And the sea breeze’s caress across your skin certainly helps.

    But it’s not enough.

    What you wouldn’t give for a frozen margarita and a giant bottle of water right now.

    Speaking of which…

    You look up from your book and see what appears to be a drink vendor pulling a cart with a cooler up the beach toward you.

    You’re saved!

    You fish your wallet out of your beach bag, ready and eager to pay whatever audaciously inflated price your savior has the gall to charge.

    As he pulls up and opens his cooler, however, you’re quickly disappointed.

    Instead of ice-cold frozen drinks or water, the vendor is using the cooler to keep his freshly brewed pots of coffee hot…

    “Only coffee?”

    “Everyone loves coffee.”

    “But on the beach? In the middle of the afternoon? On a day like this?”

    “It’s really exceptional. I buy my beans from an artisanal family-run coffee plantation in Costa Rica and roasted the beans myself this morning. You’ll love it.”

    “I’ll pass.”

    Bewildered, you watch the same scene play out again and again as the vendor wheels his cart of steaming hot disappointment among the beachgoers laid out across the pristine stretch of sand.

    Eventually, you lose sight of him, certain he hasn’t made a single sale.

    You wipe a bead of sweat from your brow and turn back to your book, still hot, still uncomfortable, still desperate for relief, and still willing to pay a premium for it.

    Finally, you abandon your post to seek ou search of a beach bar which is sure to have the refreshment you now find yourself craving:

    A frozen coffee with a shot (or two) of Bailey’s.

    Podcast Advent is presented by The Unstuck Sessions. Want to start 2025 off on the right foot? What if you had an expert ready to give you the exact steps you need to take to get unstuck — in your podcast, your business, and your process? You can with the Unstuck Sessions. Get the most valuable part of my coaching at an incredibly affordable price. Get Unstuck Today.

    Perhaps the biggest misconception about marketing is that it’s about making people want your thing.

    But there’s just one problem:

    You can’t.

    People want what they want.

    Which means the real job of marketing is creating something that aligns with the market’s existing interests, needs, and desires, and communicating that connection clearly and compellingly.

    This concept applies whether you’re selling drinks on the beach or trying to find listeners for a podcast.

    This is an essential lesson to understand, so I’ll repeat it again for emphasis:

    It is impossible to make people want something they don’t already want.

    Which means the growth potential of your show is capped by the amount of existing interest or desire in your topic or category.

    Of course, interest in your topic or category, alone is not enough.

    Big, high-growth shows are big and high-growth for exactly three reasons:

    1. A large number of people are hungry—voracious, even—for content like theirs — Not their exact show, but content in the same general category.
    2. They have some obvious differentiator that gets people to give them a chance — High demand categories mean heavy competition. ​Winning the first click​ from a listener in this environment requires a distinctive, compelling, and refreshing angle, show concept, specific audience, or sub-topic.
    3. Their show does enough of the technical things right to not turn offthose listeners who stumble across and click into it — ie. they have ​legitimate cover art​, ​SHARP episode titles​, solid production quality, and average or better ​value density​.

    That’s it.

    That’s not to say these shows haven’t done any marketing.

    Most of them do a lot of it.

    But that marketing is more about accelerating existing growth than trying to kickstart it.

    In other words, they’re not dependent on hustling on social media or throwing money away on ads in order to eke out a few new listeners each month.

    Because the real marketing has already been done when they:

    1. Identified an audience that had an existing interest, need, or desire that their show could fulfill.
    2. Learned (probably through a lot of experimentation and 1:1 audience conversations) how to communicate how their show aligned with those interests, needs, and desires.
    3. Showed up regularly where that audience was already congregating.
    4. Consistently created a show that met or exceeded their audience’s expectations.

    When it comes down to it, these four tasks are the heart of successful marketing.

    So if you’re struggling to build an audience, the first question worth asking is always:

    “Do I have verifiable proof that the people I want to attract are already engaging with shows or content similar to what I’m creating?”

    If not, there’s a good chance ​your show is doomed​. People want what they want, after all, and you won’t change their minds.

    If so, a second question:

    “Is my show at the same (or better) level of production quality, insight, humour, entertainment, and value per minute as the similar shows people are already listening to?”

    If not, there is no reason people should listen to your show…which means you know exactly where to put in the work.

    If so, on the other hand, one final question:

    “Am I showing up consistently in places my audience is already gathering, with messaging that unmistakably conveys how my show aligns with their existing interests, needs, and desires?”

    If not, you need to talk with your existing and ideal listeners to find out where exactly to show up (podcasts, newsletters, communities, forums, etc) and how to better communicate your show’s 1-sentence pitch.

    They have all the answers you need.

    If so, well, I hate to say it, but there’s a good chance you might be lying to yourself about one or more of your previous answers.

    Which is to be expected.

    It’s where we all start out as creators, before we’re forced to confront the hard cold truth:

    That what we want to create matters a whole lot less than what people want to consume.

    In most cases, there’s a ​balance to be found​ between the two.

    But it’s rare indeed that the thing we most want to create is the thing with the highest potential for growth.

    We can rail against this and resolutely forge ahead with our art, attempting to sell steaming hot coffee to an audience who’s looking for ice-cold refreshment.

    Or we can do our homework to understand what the market wants.

    What people are already seeking out and engaging with.

    What people are willing to pay an audaciously inflated premium for.

    And we can find a way to align our work and our craft with that.

    Frozen coffee with a shot (or two) of Bailey’s, perhaps.

    The choice is ours.

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