There’s a reason I’m so ardent about the need for a podcast mission statement. Answering those questions (“who is my audience,” “what problem do they have,” and, “how can I solve it for them”) will help guide you and unlock interesting ideas and value propositions for your listeners. This will make your show stand out.
And one of the most interesting podcast value propositions I know of is from Annie Fulton (RN, BSN, PCCN). Her podcast, Up My Nursing Game, has a very unique value proposition for her listeners: nurses can use it for continuing education credits.
Let’s rewind for a minute.
This is so interesting to be because I have direct experience with this. My wife is a nurse, and every year she struggles to hit the requisite 30 hours of continuing education so she can renew her nursing license.
It’s because her options are mostly terrible (that’s my official assessment, not hers). Most of the continuing education is long, boring videos of power point presentations.
But Up My Nursing Game is none of that. It’s interesting interviews with people in the medical field, from a currently practicing nurse — someone who’s in the trenches!
Listen to the episodes, take the assessment at VCU Health, and you’ve logged time towards those 30 hours.
This also makes Annie’s podcast very popular. It gets lots of listens from people in the nursing, and wider medical, field. It’s obvious why. She’s making an important part of being a nurse so much easier.
Instead of being stuck in front of a laptop during 30 of your free hours (plus the assessment), you could listen to an episode on your commute to the hospital.
So what can we learn?
The first thing, which I mentioned earlier, is that you should have a rock-solid mission statement.
But the second and third come from her actual workflow.
I will likely be doing a deep dive of Annie’s process because it’s so interesting, but because her show counts as continuing education, it needs to hit a certain standard of quality.
That means when she books guests, they need to sign some papers, she needs to submit each episode to VCU Health for marking them as continuing education, and she needs to create assessments.
She also needs to script parts of her episodes so that she’s ensuring she covers a topic completely, and the answers for the assessments are covered in the episodes.
So the second lesson is that your workflow doesn’t need to follow some prescribed way to create your show. This is obviously a lot of work for Annie, but it’s been worth it as she’s gained sponsors and personal benefits.
However, she’s still a full time nurse with a young child — so anything she can do to improve her workflow would be a huge boon to her.
You might notice that over the course of this year, she’s done a lot more solo episodes. This is to help with her workflow.
When we worked together in 2022, she asked me how to lighten the time commitment and bottleneck in parts of her process. In auditing her workflow, we determined that interviews add even more time to her production process than the typical interview show.
So I asked her if she could do more solo episodes, while still maintaining the show’s status for continuing education.
In the following months, she came up with a workflow that allows her to do just that, and it appears to be going well!
Your third and final lesson: experiment with different formats. If you always do interviews, try solo shows. If you always so solo shows, bring on a co-host to see if it works sometimes.
You might be able to unlock a new type of content that saves you time AND resonates with your audience.
Disclosure: Annie hired me for podcast coaching in 2022.
Joe Casabona is a podcast and automation coach who helps coaches, course creators, and authors grow their podcasts into authority-building lead generators. He does that through expert-tested systems that come with 10 years experience podcasting, 15 years teaching, and over 20 years working the web.
You may have heard this famous story from the 1980s. While on tour, the rock band Van Halen included an interesting line item in their rider:
M & M’s (WARNING: ABSOLUTELY NO BROWN ONES)
A rider, if you don’t know, is basically a contract for a stage performance.
It’s not that they hated brown M&Ms, or that they were divas. As David Lee Roth explained in his autobiography, Crazy from the Heat, they had a lot of important safety clauses in there as well. Van Halen’s was one of the first highly technical shows in the industry, and a lot could go wrong.
The M&Ms clause made sure a venue read the entire rider:
So, when I would walk backstage, if I saw a brown M&M in that bowl … well, line-check the entire production. Guaranteed you’re going to arrive at a technical error. They didn’t read the contract. Guaranteed you’d run into a problem. Sometimes it would threaten to just destroy the whole show. Something like, literally, life-threatening.
This is a pretty great test, and I’ve decided to implement it for podcast guest pitches.
Podcast Guest Pitches are Getting Worse
Almost a year ago, I wrote about how AI is making podcast guest pitches worse. Shockingly, this hasn’t gotten through to the biggest offenders: guest pitching agencies.
In the intervening time, they seem to have degraded even more, following an all-too-common format:
Hey Joe!
I loved your recent episode about [COMPLETELY AI GENERATED SUMMARY].
It reminded me of [CLIENT NAME] who [SOMETHING THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE RELATED TO EPISODE].
...
I've attached their one-sheet. When can we get them onto the show?
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Here’s a real one I got twice from the same person:
I’m sharing this because it’s so blatantly obvious that they didn’t listen to the (< 3 minute) episode.
Now, I’ve offered a TON of advice on how to improve guest pitches, but what if you’re the podcaster that’s getting pitched? How can you separate the wheat from the chaff?
I have a form that goes to Notion, where I can quickly evaluate guests (natch — join my mailing list to get a copy of that).
But I also have a specific question I’m looking for.
How I’m Checking Podcast Guest Pitches
Something you should know: I get a lot of pitches; 4-8 per day on average. That’s because there are actually two places where I accept guest pitches:
It’s also important to me that I read every pitch. For all the bad ones I get, I’ve had some fantastic guests come through cold pitching.
So in both places, I have my “Brown M&Ms” clause:
Guests MUST propose a specific time-saving process, system, or automation when pitching!
This makes it really easy for me to scan through a pitch to know if they took the time to read the directions and learn about the show.
If they don’t include a specific time-saving process, system, or automation, it’s an easy rejection.
This is much better than my previous screener of, “which episode made you want to reach out?” In the age of AI summaries, it’s become a largely useless question.
I also say I’m not interested in founder stories, but that still requires parsing the pitch to see if they’re pitching their story, or if they’re just including biographical info.
Once I apply this quick test, evaluation becomes much easier.
Next Steps
If Van Halen saw brown M&Ms in their green room, they knew their next step was to do a full walkthrough of all the tech again to make sure there were no issues.
If a guest fails my test, I just reject them.
But if they pass, it’s time for the actual work. I start with Deep Research through ChatGPT.
I have a pretty thorough prompt that I’m constantly iterating on, but one crucial line in the prompt is this:
Verify they can speak to the topic they’re pitching. I want you to be very skeptical here.
This has yielded great results, where ChatGPT will tell me why it thinks the guest can talk about the topic, but also what to be careful of. I’ll usually make a decision shortly after this — once I verify the research ChatGPT did.
The test, combined with this research, allows me to make a decision quickly and book better, more qualified guests.
What’s Your Brown M&Ms?
This guest pitch screening process saves me hours each week and reduces the friction in evaluating cold pitches.
As you think about your podcast process (or really, any screening process), I encourage you to think about what your “Brown M&Ms” test is.
If you already have it, write back and let me know!
Have you ever wondered why something gets put on TV? I know I have.
That’s what makes Christina Nicholson’s show, Become a Media Maven, so interesting from a content standpoint.
From a process standpoint, the show has been around since 2018 and has evolved and adapted to the changing landscape. This has helped Christina keep the show relevant without adding a ton more work to her plate. It’s also what has allowed her to focus on lead generation.
Let’s take a look at what inspired the changes she made, how she produces her show today, and of-course, what you can steal from her workflow.
Christina is a former TV reporter and anchor turned PR agency owner. Today, she helps creators and small-medium sized businesses earn media. Her podcast, in Christina’s own words:
…pulls the curtain back on what really happens in the media industry, to make it easier for small business owners and marketers to earn coverage in the press without spending money on ads.
First, the mission statement of this podcast is perfect. She mentions who she helps, the problem she solves, and how she does it. We’re off to a fantastic start!
Since Christina has a ton of experience in this area, it makes sense that her solo show focuses on leveraging her expertise…but it wasn’t always a solo show.
Starting as an Interview Show
Like most podcasts that have been around for a while, Become a Media Maven started out primarily as an interview show, where Christina would bring on guest experts to talk about a topic. Some of those early guests included Lisa Simon Richards, Michelle Dempsey, and Pat Flynn.
However, she did set the tone right in the beginning, making her first episode just her, talking about her expertise.
Throughout the early years, she sprinkled in solo episodes between the interviews, and in 2020, even introduced a miniseries called “3 Things on Thursday.” I’m sure you can figure out what those episodes covered.
It wasn’t until 2023 that her show stopped having guests. Today, she focuses on creating shorter episodes that allow her to showcase her expertise, and she’s leveraging those episodes to build her audience.
This also makes her production process SUPER short.
Your Takeaway: It’s OK to change your format. In-fact, you should experiment with different formats to see what resonates with your listeners.
30 Minutes to Produce One Episode!
One of the questions I like to ask when doing research for these breakdowns is, “are there any gaps in your process?”
Christina answered with a definitive, “No.”
So, how does she do it? There are 3 important aspects to this super slim process:
She has a solo show, where she is the expert, with no guests.
Her recording process is spartan: just her iPhone and a decent mic.
She smartly streamlines the editing process by taking notes during the recording.
We’ll look at some tips Christina shares to speed up editing, but there’s no avoiding the fact that when you have guests, there’s more effort that needs to go into the edit. You need to align tracks, normalize audio volumes, and edit a conversation with 2 or more people. Add video, and it gets even more complex.
Modern tools like Descript and Riverside make it easier, but adding more people to a process like this often complicates things. So this process is invariably faster because it’s a solo show with no guests.
With a solo show, Christina can control her entirely environment.
She can also choose topics that make production easier.
Picking the Topics
Christina takes an interesting approach to creating podcast content: she’ll pick the title first…and do it based on what she thinks will encourage people to listen, based on some research.
Based on the title, I will come up with an outline that turns into the show notes for the episode. I will also ask myself what resources I can offer that people can get after they listen for more value, and make sure those are noted in the outline and show notes.
So her topic is based on 2 things:
What is interesting to her listeners
What resource she can offer listeners to deliver even more value.
We’ll get to that second point later, but topic selection is SUPER important. It’s easy to pick topics you know well, or that are appealing to you, but your goal should be to help listeners.
When you keep that in mind, it’s easier to pick topics in the service of your audience.
Christina also knows that with a good topic and outline in hand, she doesn’t need super fancy equipment to record. The value is in the content.
Recording the Episode
When Become a Media Maven had guests, those interviews were recording via Zoom. Since the show started in 2018, this was slightly before the browser-based, remote recording revolution.
Today, I’d recommend you use a tool like Riverside or Squadcast to record with other people.
But since the show transitioned to solo/no guests, Christina has two tools for recording:
She also uses a green screen, which is something to consider if you’re going to release the video.
Using these tools, she can easily record in QuickTime, Descript, eCamm Live, or any other video recording software, making this process as easy as possible for her.
Then it’s time for what’s usually the most time-consuming process: the edit.
Doing the Edit
One of the great things about Christina’s show is that she’s super transparent about how she does things. In How I Edit My Podcast Episodes So Fast, she outlines her entire process. One of my favorite quotes from that episode:
We breathe. Every day.
She’s pointing out that editing out breathing, um, and ahh is unnecessary, and takes too much time.
In fact, she doesn’t even listen to the entire episode of her podcast when she does the edits.
For both guest episodes (when she had them), and solo shows, she’ll take notes during the recording on what and when to edit, by marking timestamps.
*As an aside, she uses Adobe Premiere Pro to edit because she also records video.
She also gives an important anecdote about TV media in the episode. Christina mentions that some people on TV would do super long interviews, even though the episode is less than 2 minutes, and they only really use 3 soundbites.
She would stop when she got what she needed.
Your Takeaway: Know what you need to get before you go into the interview or episode. You’ll be able to deliver value to your listener more quickly, and save yourself some time in the edit.
Hiring an Editor
Now, since starting her show, Christina has hired a video editor from Upwork. Here’s what she had to say about that:
I send the video to an editor after it’s recorded, along with the show notes, to edit it for YouTube. When I get that video back, I pull the sound…to upload it for the podcast.
This is a great move on her part because it frees up her time, and makes her production time basically as long as it takes to record.
While many podcasters are hesitant to hire an editor due to creative or financial constraints, it’s one of the best things you can do to free up your time.
And as you’ll see, Become a Media Maven doesn’t directly make money. But the investment is worth it to Christina because she’s not only saving time; she’s getting two assets:
A video for YouTube
The audio for her podcast feed
Publishing the Podcast
That’s right — Become a Media Maven recordings serve as both a YouTube video, and a podcast episode.
Since Christina is covering one, focused topic in 20ish minutes, she doesn’t need to rely on visuals, but can add them (as well as some sound effects) to keep her audience engaged, regardless of what platform they’re on.
Currently, she publishes the podcast herself, using the outline she created as a basis for the show notes. She uploads the same text and title to both YouTube, and her audio host, Buzzsprout.
There’s one more thing she adds to the show notes. Remember how she picks a topic based on a what resources she can provide?
She’ll also include that resource, which she mentions at the top of the show, in the show notes.
Using the Podcast for Lead Generation
While Become a Media Maven doesn’t make any direct income, it is directly related to Christina’s expertise, services, and products.
For that reason, she uses her show as lead generation for her business. She effectively picks topics that aligns with resources she has, to get people onto her mailing list.
In-fact, when I asked her what her call-to-action (CTA) is, she said this:
It differs for every episode — whatever is relevant.
This is great because she knows if someone is listening to the episode, they’re definitely interested in the topic, and are more likely to trade their email address for a helpful resource.
From there, she can provide even more value, better nurture the relationship, and when the subscribers are ready, make the sale.
This is a tactic that was basically perfected by Amy Porterfield. The resource, and therefore the CTA, is directly related to the free content she’s creating.
This is why Christina can justify the cost of an editor. It’s a cost of doing business, and so much cheaper than doing paid ads!
Your Takeaway: If your podcast aligns with your business, you should absolutely use it for lead generation. Create a couple of freebies to get people to sign up for your mailing list.
By the way — that doesn’t mean she can’t make money with sponsorships or through other methods. In-fact, one of her goals for the next 12 months is to get sponsors and possibly join a network.
But right now, the content is worth doing not because it’s a direct line of income, but because it’s a great, authentic marketing tool for her business.
The Power of Video: Repurposing
One of the great things about Christina’s process for recording video is that she has LOTS of flexibility for repurposing. She even talked about this in a podcast episode earlier this year:
Last year, I approached content with a podcast first in mind. This year, I’m going YouTube first.
By going YouTube first, she can extract that audio (like we covered above), but she can also create multiple clips for social media like TikTok, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
In-fact, she ends up creating 8 different types of content for each episode. She lists them in a blog post from the above episode: YouTube, podcast, blog post, pin on Pinterest, multiple text, image, and video posts, and a LinkedIn carousels.
Christina also leans on her assistant for the creation of a lot of this stuff, and truth be told, this is the perfect task for a VA2.
She also talks about using a spreadsheet to track everything. Airtable would be another great option for this, and I think it’s a brilliant idea. You can:
See what needs to be created vs. what you’ve already created
Keep a publishing schedule
House the assets
Have a place for you to reference if you every want to republish something
If you’re thinking about repurposing, my recommendation would be to pick 1–2 types of content at first. Test and perfect that process, then expand.
Using Become a Media Maven to Improve Your Podcast Workflow
The process for producing Become a Media Maven has so many fantastic gems that it was hard for me to narrow it down to just a few takeaways.
However, my favorite part is Christina’s approach is both a master class in experimentation, and in making your content work for you.
She’s switched up some aspect of her show every year of its existence, from “3 Things on Thursday” episodes, to killing interviews, to being YouTube-first.
Throughout that whole time, however, she’s known her audience and who she serves. The show isn’t monetized directly, but it allows her to elevate her profile, build her authority, and understand a form of media she helps her agency clients access.
It’s an honest-to-goodness marketing tool for her, and it’s working super well.
So what can you learn from Christina’s podcast process?
Experiment with the Format of Your Podcast
It’s easy to get stuck in a routine and a format that you think is working for you. In fact, other platforms (like YouTube and TikTok) favor homogeny in content.
That’s not the case with podcasting. You’re not at the mercy of an algorithm, so you have the opportunity and flexibility to experiment.
If you always do interviews, try a few solo shows. Your audience might end up liking them better because they know, like, and trust you.
If you publish 4 times a month, try peppering in one of these different episodes as a bonus 5th episode.
Do something different from what you’re doing now, and see if it resonates. Christina is constantly experimenting, and it pays off. She’s routinely ranking in the top 200 marketing podcasts on Apple Podcasts3.
Know the Goal of Your Episodes Before You Record
It’s a lot easier to get someplace if you actually know where you’re going. Joe Rogan asks countless questions until he finds something he likes and wants to dig in on.
But he’s probably the only person who can do that, and his episodes are regularly 3+ hours.
For the rest of us, we want to deliver high value to our listeners in as little time as possible. Knowing what the listener is going to learn before you hit record lets you keep the conversation tight, hit the main points efficiently and effectively, and will make editing a lot easier too.
Your listeners will thank you.
Plus, knowing the goal beforehand lets you better prepare for the most important takeaway:
Use Your Podcast for Lead Generation
Like I said for the first takeaway: your audience knows, likes, and trusts you.
Leveraging your show to generate leads for your business doesn’t need to be in the form of smarmy, overly salesy tactics.
You can do what Christina does, and create a free resource that delivers even more value to your listeners. It shows you truly understand your listeners’ problems.
If you would rather not create a different resource for each episode4, have 2-3 different ones that you can recommend based on the topic you’re covering.
And if you can’t think of three, start with one! You could always add more later.
Mention these resources at the beginning and end of your episodes, and be sure to link them in the show notes.
Christina also adds the nice touch of creating a simple, speakable URL so that it’s easy for listeners to hear and remember how to access the resource.
There’s a reason that movies have teaser trailers. That TV shows have short “hits.” “Tonight, on a very special Blossom,” came from somewhere.
They are designed to create buzz, and entice viewers to go and watch the entire movie or episode when it comes out. And while they are a tried and true method for TV and movies, do they…or something analogous…work for podcasts?
I think it depends. At play here, in the headline of this very article, is a conflict:
I’m saying “can” instead of “do.” Anything can work, and some podcasters surely believe it does.
Betteridge’s Law of Headlines states that any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered with, “No.”
So maybe the better question is, “how can short form video work for your podcast?”
Experiments with Short Form Video
I’ve tried a couple of experiments with short form video over the past few years, My most recent attempt had me working with a video editor running similar experiments.
He’d take the full video of each episode and extract clips he thought were good, add some music and branding, and then post them on:
TikTok
YouTube Shorts
Instagram Reels
X/Twitter (herein, X)
Importantly, for TikTok and X, they were posted to my personal accounts. For Instagram and YouTube, they were posted to the podcast’s accounts.
So what were the results? Aggressively average.
We don’t need to talk about X. I may as well have not posted on there.
On TikTok, I got within 10% of the same videos for each video — mid-200s:
This proved to be most consistent platform, but I don’t think it was successful (I’ll get to why in a minute). Relatively speaking, the pinned videos remain my top performers. Plus, I don’t use TikTok much for a combination of reasons. This likely hurt me, as I’m not posting more “organic” content, nor am I engaging.
The most interesting results came from YouTube and Instagram. On average, the videos underperformed compared to TikTok. But there were two videos on each platformed that did 3-5x than TikTok’s 250ish average.
I think that’s more the goal I have with short form videos — take a bunch of shots, and see which one scores.
But that’s not the real goal for me, nor should it be for you.
How do Short Form Videos Convert?
Hopefully I’m stating the obvious here: I want short form videos to lead people to my podcast.
The easiest place for this to happen is YouTube. The shorts are posted to the same channel as the podcast audio — so discovery should be best there.
TikTok also lets you connect podcast episodes to videos — but it’s impossible to see how well that converts, as I couldn’t find the stats anywhere in TikTok, and the TikTok app doesn’t appear as a player in my analytics apps.
All of that is to say, if there was any conversion, it was not noticeable.
I will continue to experiment — perhaps there’s a better type of content to help promote the show than just straight clips from the episode — but I think there’s a better workflow.
“Listen to my Podcast” Isn’t the Right CTA.
I think about CTAs on social media that take users off the platform like this:
Imagine you’re swimming in the ocean, and someone comes up to you on a boat, with a bike, and says, “Hey I have this bike for you. You should ride it right now.”
Even if you want that bike, you’re not ready to ride it at that moment.
Telling someone to stop scrolling their timeline to listen to your podcast is kind of the same thing. They are in one specific context, and they’re not ready to change contexts.
Instead, I think the better play is to get them on your mailing list. THEN you can promote your podcast to the mailing list. This was super effective for my friend Yong-Soo Chung.
This isn’t a 20-60 minute commitment. They can do it quickly, and get back to what they were doing.
You’re gently reminding people who’ve already opted-in to what you have to say that you have a podcast. And you’re giving them the option to subscribe and listen when it’s convenient for them.
It’s like giving them the option to ride a bike or swim before they start — not interrupting what they’re doing to do something totally different.
What You Should do From Here
That really depends on your audience. You should:
Determine where your audience hangs out
Determine what kind of content they like to consume
Post on the appropriate social network regularly, and with purpose
Make sure to have your CTA clearly stated — you want people to come off that platform and join you where you live!
You can also use tools like Riverside or Descript to help you create clips. I think the AI route is best here while you’re still learning and experimenting. This is about number of shots you take — you don’t know what’s quality until you have quantity.
As for me, I’m going to try two things (aside from make my CTA join the mailing list):
For Podcast Workflows, release the full episodes on TikTok. They have a 10 minute limit, and the short episodes are less than 7.
For How I Built It and longer Podcast Workflows episodes, I’m going to borrow a strategy from our friends in the movie industry: create content during the episodes just for the teaser.
Maybe you’ve notice not all trailer footage appears in movies or TV shows? Studios will use interesting scenes from the cutting room floor, or in some cases, create scenes just for the trailer.
That sounds like a fun, low-effort things for me to try. What do you think?
We’ve all experienced analysis paralysis. There are too many items on the menu at a restaurant and you’re not sure what to order. There are seemingly a million Apple Watch bands – which do you pick? What’s really the difference between the Toyota Sienna LE and XLE?!
What’s the balance between offering choice and getting people to take action? That really depends on the medium. For example, you may notice podcasts have a ton of calls to action (CTAs). Maybe you do. My podcast does at times. Is that really the right route?
I don’t think so. Here’s why.
Too Many Requests Result in Zero Action
My daughter is 6 years old and there are a few things we need to do for her to make her feel like she’s in some sort of control.
We need to tell her what’s happening next. This comes in the form of a daily schedule. She knows when she wakes up we get changed, brush teeth, eat breakfast, and clean the sun room. Then she can have iPad time.
I need to make sure I don’t tell her to do too many things at once because she’ll get overwhelmed and do none of them.
My son, who’s 3, needs the same treatment. Except when he’s overwhelmed, he gets upset because he doesn’t understand what’s going on. This is how toddlers act. They want to be in the know.
I also need to show them the positive results — the benefit — of them doing 3 things they’d rather not do. Experts call this a “preferred activity,” and it’s their reward for following the schedule.
Now, I’m not saying our podcast listeners are toddlers, but much like little kids, we don’t usually have their full attention. Podcasting, for many, is a multitasking activity. So we need to make our intentions and the benefits crystal clear.
You Should Have One Clear CTA
Because of that, you should have one clear CTA that you repeat throughout the show. You should mention it at the beginning, somewhere in the middle (related to the content) and you should mention it a few times at the end.
Remember: you have listeners who are half paying attention so repetition is important. You don’t want to overwhelm or confuse the listener as to what you want them to do most. So have one CTA.
Make Your CTA to Join Your Mailing List
You know what is a great place to promote multiple things? Your mailing list. You have a reader’s full attention there — especially if they open the email.
There you can promote your membership, products, or even ask for a review in Apple Podcasts.
Plus, while it might be easy to skip an episode, mailing list subscribers will at the very least see your name in their inbox weekly. They’re buying into more of your content!
So in your CTA, ask people to join your mailing list. Give them an incentive. Tell them all the great things they’ll get outside the podcast.
Highlight the benefits!
Podcaster and friend Matt Medieros recommends having a dedicated subscribe page with the email opt-in as well as podcast subscribe buttons, which I think is a great idea.
What About Show Notes?
Sometimes there’s a lot you want to mention. Maybe there are links you reference, a mailing list, rating and reviews, etc.
The way apps handle show notes/episode descriptions these days are pretty great. I recommend putting the crucial links there — anything referenced in the show, a link to your mailing list, etc.
But listeners will probably see those anyway. So you still need to ask them to do something — and I think “join my mailing list” should be that something.
Clarity and Repetition are Key
Clarity and repetition are key. You need to make sure your listener knows, beyond the shadow of a doubt, what you think their most important next step is.
🚨 Guest post alert! I’m SUPER excited to be sharing with you an article from Tink Media and Podcast Marketing Magic. I love this advice because it’s great for the best-of lists, but it applied any time you pitch yourself! If you want more tips on how to get people to listen to the beautiful show you’re making, subscribe to Podcast Marketing Magic!
With the end of the year nearing, apps and podcast newsletter writers are creating some version of 2023 “Best Of” podcast lists (You can check out Tink’s Audio Delicacies 2023, our delicious end-of-year list, here). Getting on these lists can be great to boost the listenership of your show!
Today, let’s look at how to pitch your podcast to get on these lists.
Curators of these lists will start making them soon, if they haven’t already begun. So get your pitching gear ready and let’s get this show on the road.
But, first…
If you only have time for one thing
Word of advice: if you can find a podcast list and/or writer that’s more specific to your genre, pitch them. For example – if you have an audio fiction show, you’re better off pitching to be an audio fiction list than a broader podcast one.
Let’s begin!
How to pitch your podcast to a “best of” list
Begin with research
✅ Start by creating a list of what publications and journalists typically create end-of-year lists.
✅ Create a list of 10-15 publications and/or writers you want to include on your outreach.
✅ Make careful note of what they’ve called their lists in the past and what kind of podcasts and/or episodes have they included.
✅ Cast a wide net and go deeper. A simple Google search is a good place to start. However, look beyond the first page to see what comes up. Often, the first page throws lists made by bigger publications. These are not bad to include on your outreach list but they might not all be relevant to you.
Pick where your listeners might be
The very same Google search for “podcast best of list 2022” brings up lists created by bigger publications such as The Guardian or The Atlantic. Now, for independent and/or new creators in the audience, these can be daunting places to start. So while you should pitch yourself to these publications, you might be better off finding places and writers that are more specific to your genre. For example: if your podcast is about food, pitching to food publications might be more relevant than to The New Yorker.
If you’re running short on time, we recommend:
✅ Creating a general pitch to send to the bigger publications.
✅ Creating pitch templates which you can then customize for publications that are more relevant to your genre and audience.
💡 Pro-tip: prioritize pitching to podcast newsletters over generic media publications. The audiences of those newsletters are already podcast listeners and have a higher chance of tuning into your show, as compared to readers of generic media publications.
Give them your why
Every good pitch includes a clear, concise, and customized why. Be sure to include:
✅ Why did you choose them to pitch to?
✅ Why should they choose you for their list?
✅ Why should their readers/listeners know about your podcast?
Include your best episodes
Podcast “best of” lists could be either curations of complete podcasts or just single episodes. Either way, it’s always best to pitch a specific episode so that the person making the decision knows exactly what to tune into. Here are a few things to keep in mind:
✅ Include your trailer.
✅ Depending on whether your show is serialized or episodic, include your first or best episode.
💡 Pro-tip: your best episode might not mean the episode you had most fun creating. It could be the one that has the highest number of downloads or most listener engagement. When in doubt, put yourself in a new listener’s shoes and pick the episode you think they might enjoy the most.
✅ If you’re a serialized podcast with a lot of episodes on your feed (for example: a TTRPG podcast) be sure to link to a recap episode.
Pitch to relevant writers
In addition to publications, consider pitching your podcast to relevant writers in your field. Even if they have not curated a list in the past, you can pitch your and other shows to them.
➡️ You never know what might get their wheels turning! This might happen when pitching to writers/publications in your niche. Maybe a food magazine or travel blog has posted about some podcasts, but never made a best of list at the end of the year. Now’s your chance to encourage and help!
Make it about more than yourself
💛 Most folks receiving these pitches are busy. A great way to catch their attention and earn their appreciation is by suggesting more than just your show. This works especially well if you’re pitching to a list of podcasts in a specific genre. It’s also a great way to platform fellow creators.
With these tips, we hope we’ve set you on the right path to pitch your show for end-of-year lists. Feel free to ask any questions in the comments!
Thanks so much to Shreya Sharma and Lauren Passell for authoring this post —and to the entire Tink Media team for their contribution!
I’ve noticed a trend over the last week or so — I’ve been talking to more people who’ve been either interested, or intrigued, by the idea of doing solo podcast episodes.
First, there was my coaching call with Alex, where we discussed how to more efficiently do solo episodes.
Then I was talking to a fellow creator who surveyed her audience. She was surprised to see that they actually preferred the solo episodes to the interviews.
I understand why there might be trepidation for people who haven’t done them.
“No one wants to listen to me talk that long.”
“I can’t talk about something for 20 minutes straight.”
“It’s going to be boring.”
“It feels weird.”
But the truth is there are a TON of benefits to doing solo episodes.
They are much easier to produce
The focus is on you, which builds your authority
You can batch them so you never fall behind on your podcast
They can be shorter, which can improve completion rates
You control the entire narrative
I’ve written about a lot of the benefits of a solo show here, but today I really want to focus on the process improvements.
You Don’t Need to fill 30 Minutes
For a long time, in the United States, a 30-minute TV show slot would require 22–24 minutes of content, intro included. This leaves room for 3 commercial breaks.
They had to fill that time, or more likely cut down to that time…which is why intros from the 1970s are dramatically longer than intro in the 2000s.
Streaming alleviates that requirement for TV — but we’ve never had that requirement for a podcast episode.
I think many podcasters worry that they need to make an episode of a certain length. But that’s not true.
If it only takes you 10 minutes to discuss something, then release a 10-minute episode.
If you go super deep on a topic and have a valuable 45 minutes, then do that.
There’s no golden length to any episodes. Let the topic dictate the length.
If you are looking for a litmus test for length, I like to borrow Troy Dean’s metric for his courses: “How can I get the student/viewer/listener from Zero to Win?”
Think about where your listener is before the episode, and where you want to get them by the end of the episode. What’s one action they can take to get them there?
As an aside, I don’t think interviews need to be 60 minutes, either. I’d actually argue that shorter interviews are better — but that’s a topic for a different newsletter.
Time-Saving Process Improvements
So if you are doing a solo episode, what exactly are you doing to save time?
I’m going to assume you edit your show because I know you that you know need to edit.
There are a few tasks we can immediately throw out:
Guest research
Guest outreach and scheduling
Any pre-interview or pre-production information, including technical difficulties
Downloading and combining/cleaning up the audio
Cutting tangents
These will get replaced with one item:
Outline or Script
How to Create a Fat Outline
I’ve also written at length about this topic, but I think it comes down to one key question: are you speaking on a topic you’re an expert in, or are you telling a story?
If you’re telling a story — like a fiction story or deeply researched piece of journalism — you probably want to script.
But if you’re speaking on a topic you’re an expert in, an outline (or a “fat” outline) is sufficient.
Here’s how I create the fat outlines for my solo episodes:
Create the outline, following the 3-Act structure
Under each act, fill in a couple of bullet points to make sure I hit the most important beats.
Under certain bullets, add a couple of sentences expanding upon what I have in mind — these are sentences I can read verbatim, or paraphrase, but they provide a bit more structure for me to help listeners get from Zero to Win
Because I’m picking a topic I’m an expert in (or some behind the scenes thing for my business), Just having the cues to go deeper on an area is enough.
What About Production/Post Production?
Once you have your fat outline, or script, it’s time to record! I like to record my solo episode in Ecamm Live because I have nice layouts, in-case I release the video.
When you mess up, clap into the mic, and keep recording. You can easily cut things later in Descript, or have your editor look for the long, skinny lines on the wave file.
The considerable time-saving benefit here is that you don’t need to level and combine audio, or hunt down the places where you need to cut/edit the guest.
In-fact, sometimes I don’t even send solo episodes to my editor. I record, put the audio through Logic Pro (I have some presets to clean up the audio), then cut the sections that need cutting, and upload.
And since they’re shorter, more focused, there’s inherently less audio to scrub through anyway!
Batching Content
The last big benefit of solo episodes is that you can batch a couple right in a row so you have them.
With summer chaos, I’ve had some guests cancel or reschedule, or I’ve had to reschedule.
In those instances, solo episode saved me. Instead of scrambling to find a new guest, I’m able to record a solo episode I’ve been sitting on, or pull one from one of my back catalog.
Your Next Steps
OK, so how am I getting you from Zero to Win in this newsletter?
Think about a topic you can do solo. Something you’re working on, or a question you got from your listeners.
Then make a fat outline and record it.
You don’t need to edit yet — just see how it feels. The more you do solo episodes, the more comfortable you’ll get.
And you, like my creator friend from earlier, might find that your audience prefers them.
