I was a freelancer, web developer, and programmer since 14 years old, before pivoting to podcasting and automation.
We programmers have a saying when it come the quality of what our work produces: garbage in, garbage out.
Stable Diffusion image from the prompt, “Create a futuristic image based on the programming adage Garbage in, garbage out as it pertains to generative AI output. it can include robots and gears.”
That means your output is a function of your input.
When it comes to tools like ChatGPT, the better your prompt, the better the answer you get.
When it comes to using AI to repurpose your content, the clearer your content, the better the assets AI generates.
I’ve been experimenting with Castmagic over the last few weeks, and something has become very clear:
When I speak off the cuff, sometimes I’m not very clear.
I won’t lay too much credit at the feet of generative AI, but when I have it transcribe and subsequently summarize my thoughts, it seems to focus on 1-2 things…presumably the things it understands the best.
Or perhaps, it’s what I have placed at that assumed “climax” of the episode.
Generative AI and Storytelling
I’m not an expert in Large Language Models (LLMs), but the basics are this: it takes in a TON of text-based data, and uses math to associate the discrete words from those texts.
So for example, it might recognize, due to statistical analysis, that “I want to go to” more often ends with the word “Paris, France” than “Cheyenne, Wyoming” (sorry, Wyoming).
All of that is to say, LLMs likely understand how people tell stories, and makes some assumptions about how we organize our podcasts.
I decided to ask ChatGPT (by way of Raycast AI) what makes a good story:
Then I asked it the most important point of the story:
And when the climax usually happens:
And while Castmagic doesn’t always pick what I talk about at the end, it does pick a point after I’ve built some momentum.
The problem is that’s not how I structure my solo episodes. I usually put the most important information up front.
While there is a place for that (like social media), it doesn’t create compelling content like a story does.
We are Storytellers
There’s a clear difference between the popular podcasts and the struggling ones: a story.
Not in the “Hero rescues the people in trouble” sort of sense. But there is still a clear beginning, a conflict, a climax, and a satisfying resolution.
And if you subscribe to The Hero’s Journey, there is still a hero (the listener), and a guide (the host).
For example, on The Profitable Podcaster, I might tell a story about how I had a client (the hero) struggling to stay consistent.
In the beginning, she starts the podcast, diligently producing an episode each week. But then she falls behind after having to unexpectedly take a week off (here’s the conflict).
So she hires me (the guide) to help her, and we set up a few automations that save her 2 hours per week…there’s the climax. NOW, she can spend those 2 hours creating a back catalog of episodes, staying 1-2 months ahead…a satisfying resolution.
This is much more compelling than me talking at you about how you need to automate parts of your podcast, right?
And doing a little bit of planning from the beginning can help us create better episodes, which then creates better content for repurposing on other platforms.
How Can AI Force Podcasters to be Better Storytellers?
So knowing all of this begs the question: what can we do with this information?
If we want to leverage generative AI for repurposing especially, we need to give it better inputs. Garbage in, garbage out.
That means doing a little bit of planning up front. I think there are two ways you can do it:
Plan the show on your own, outlining, creating pseudo scripts, and building a narrative around each episode. We need to lean into the story.
Use AI to help you plan and organize your episode, giving it a topic and crafting a prompt to help you build a better episode.
Here’s an example of the latter:
You can also feed it an outline and ask to improve it:
…or a narrative:
Leveraging AI isn’t just about creating content we normally wouldn’t create. It’s about helping us create better content.
That means using it for both input (researching, organizing, and crafting stories), and output (taking what we’ve created and repurposing it for other platforms).
When you create better inputs, your output will be SO much better.
Real quick before we get started. I want to tell you about a brand new newsletter I’m launching called Podcast Workflows. Each week I’ll do a deep dive on how a popular podcaster creates their show. From start to finish, from processes to tools. Then, I’ll tell you how you can apply what they do to improve your own podcast workflow.
You can sign up over at [podcastworkflows.com]. One breakdown delivered to your inbox weekly. Learn the tools and processes used by top podcasters and reclaim hours of your life, every week. That’s [podcastworkflows.com]. Sign up today, for FREE.
I was a Freelancer, Web Developer and Programmer since 14 years old, before pivoting to Podcasting and Automation. And we, programmers have a saying when it comes to the quality of what our work produces, garbage in, garbage out. That means your output is a function of your input. And this is true all the time, right? If you eat like garbage before a run, your run is going to be garbage. If you stay up all night out drinking the night before, and then try to do your job the next day, you’re going to do your job poorly. And if you write code that doesn’t accept good inputs, then you’re not going to get good outputs.
When it comes to tools like ChatGPT, the better your prompt, the better the answer you will get. And when it comes to using AI to repurpose your content, the clearer your content, the better the assets AI generates.
Now, a couple of episodes ago, or in a previous episode, I talked about how generative AI tools can help us podcasters. I don’t think synthesized voices are going to be the place where AI can help us the most. It’s going to be in places like research, but also repurposing. And there are some tools out there like Castmagic that can help us. However, If your inputs are not good, then Castmagic and Cap show with their outputs are not going to be good either.
So today, I set out to answer the question, “Can Generative AI Help us be Better Podcasters?”
Stick around to find out.
Welcome to the Profitable Podcaster where I help coaches, course creators and authors launch and grow their podcasts to help them build authority, generate more leads, and sell more through actionable advice and expert tested systems.
I’m your host, Joe Casabona and I’ve been podcasting for over 10 years. I’ve generated millions of downloads and hundreds of thousands of dollars from my shows. I’ll teach you everything I know here on The Profitable Podcaster.
Okay. So what do I mean by garbage in, garbage out? How can generative AI possibly help us make better, make us better podcasters?
I’ve been experimenting with Castmagic over the last few weeks, and something became very clear to me.
When I speak off the cuff, sometimes my point is not obvious or put a different way. When I speak off the cuff, sometimes I’m not very clear.
Now, I won’t lay too much credit at the feet of generative ai, but when I have it transcribe and subsequently summarize my thoughts, it seems to focus on one to two things. Presumably the things that it understands the best. These could be the things I said the most. These could be the things that I mentioned at some point, right? It could be what I have placed at the assumed climax of the episode.
Now, I’m not an expert in large language models or LLMs for short, but the basics are this: They take in a ton of text-based data, and they use math to associate the discreet words from those texts.
So for example, it might recognize due to statistical analysis that the words I want to go to, more often end with the words: Paris, France, then Cheyenne, Wyoming. Sorry Wyoming and…
Sorry. The fine folks of Cheyenne if I’m saying that incorrectly. All of that is to say, LLMs likely understand how people tell stories and make assumptions about how we organize our own content.
Now, I decided to ask ChatGPT by way of Raycast.ai, what makes a good story? And here’s what it said, “My exact prompt, I’ll tell you my exact prompt and you can see screenshots over in the article linked in the show notes.”
What is the structure of a good story? ChatGPT said this, “A good story typically has a clear, beginning, middle, and end with a well-defined plot, interesting characters, and a compelling conflict or goal. It often includes a strong narrative arc, emotional resonance, and themes that resonate with the reader or audience. Additionally, effective stories often incorporate elements such as foreshadowing, symbolism, and imagery to enhance the overall impact of the narrative.” Then, so that was what ChatGPT, said.
Then I asked it the most important point of the story. Again, my prompt was, what’s the most important point in a good story? It said the most important point in a good story is often the climax, which is the highest point of tension or conflict in the narrative. This is where the main character confronts the central problem or challenge and faces their greatest obstacle.
The climax is a pivotal moment in the story that often determined the outcome of the plot and has a significant impact on the characters and their relationships. A well executed climax can be emotionally satisfying for the audience and leave a lasting impression.
Then I said, “When does the stories climax usually take place?”
The stories climax usually takes place towards the end of the narrative after the rising action has built up and the tension and conflict, and just before the falling action begins to resolve the story’s conflicts and bring it to a close.
And while Castmagic, (that’s the end of that quote, by the way) and while Castkmagic doesn’t always pick what I talk about at the end, it does pick a point after I’ve built some momentum. The problem is that that’s now not how I structure these episodes. I usually put the most important information up front. Notice I’m not doing that for this episode, by the way. While there is a place for that, putting the most information up front, I mean like social media, it doesn’t create compelling content like a story does.
On social media and short form oriented platforms, we want the information as soon as possible. We want the quick hit quickly. but the problem is that we are storytellers. There’s a clear difference between the popular podcasts and the struggling one.
A story (not in the quot) “Hero rescues the people in trouble” of sort of sense. But there is still a clear beginning, a conflict, a climax, and a satisfying resolution.
And if you subscribe to the hero’s journey, there is still a hero, the listener, and a host, the guide, or maybe the guest, but usually it’s the host. For example, on this show, I might tell a story about how I had a client. The hero struggling to stay consistent.
In the beginning, she starts the podcast diligently producing an episode each week. But then she falls behind after being sick and having to unexpectedly take a week off.
This is the conflict. So she hires me the guide to help her, and we set up a few automations that save her two hours per week. There’s the climax. Now, she can spend those two hours creating a back catalog of episodes saying one to two months ahead. That is the satisfying resolution.
This is much more compelling than me talking about how you need to automate parts of your podcast, right? I am illustrating that point with a story. A success story specifically.
And doing a little bit of planning from the beginning can help us create better episodes, which then creates better content for repurposing on other platforms.
So knowing all of this, the structure of a story, that generative AI makes some assumptions based on our inputs, and that the better the input, the better the output.
How does knowing all of this help us? What can we do with this information? If we want to leverage generative AI for repurposing, especially, we need to give it better inputs, garbage in, garbage out. That means doing a little bit of planning upfront. And I think there are two ways that you can do it:
1. You can plan the show on your own. Outlining, outlining, creating Pseudos scripts and building a narrative around each episode. Remember, we need to lean into the story.
2. Use AI to help you plan and organize your episode, giving it a topic, and then crafting a prompt to help you build a better episode. Here’s an example of that. Again, I’m going to read my prompt and then I’m going to read what ChatGPT said.
The prompt. I have a solo podcast called The Profitable Podcaster where I help podcasters improve their workflows and processes to waste less time so they can focus on creating content to make money and build authority. Do you understand this is important? Cuz I wanted to read and remember that because ChatGPT, it’s an ongoing chat. It remembers what you just said. So it gives me confirmation that it remembers that.
Then I said, I want to create an episode for this podcast called Five Tools I Use to Organize My Podcast where I talk about Airtable, Bear notes, Google Docs, Castmagic and make.com.
Can you create an outline for that episode? That also creates a compelling narrative for the listener. It then goes on to create this outline telling me to add stories and things like that. But you can also feed it and outline and ask to improve it.
So here I say, again, these screenshots are in the blog post. I’ll link them in the description or in the show notes. I’m creating a podcast episode where I help listeners design a workflow to help them plan, record, and publish their own podcast episodes. I’d like you to take the provided outline and make improvements to it. Restructure if you need to. Add topics and bullet points and add relevant anecdotes. And then the full outline.
So I also include the pretty long response, cold open, share a story, share a personal anecdote. This one was just okay, but then I asked it to write a narrative based on what I just said earlier about my client who needed help. So it gives me a six point outline That basically goes through the arc of the story, which I think is pretty compelling, telling me to start with the hook that grabs the listener’s attention.
Have you ever struggled to stay consistent with your podcast? Then I introduce myself and the client explaining the problem that she was facing using specific examples, Describe the process. We went through to solve the problem, highlight the key benefits of my solution, wrap it up with a call to action and end with a memorable closing statement.
Leveraging AI isn’t just about creating content we normally wouldn’t create. It’s about helping us create better content. That means using it for both input, researching, organizing, crafting stories, and output. Taking what we’ve created and repurposing it for other platforms. When you create better inputs, your outputs will be so much better.
That means leverage generative AI to help you craft a good story. A good narrative for your podcast. If you look back on this, if you re-listened to this episode, You’ll notice I started with an anecdote. then I set up the problem, right? So if you are the hero, I have set up a problem for you. and that is that generative AI doesn’t always produce great output.
Based on our input, we go through a journey where I explain to you how a story works. The climax is where I tell you that we are storytellers and we need to leverage that to create good content. And then the satisfying conclusion is how to use chatGPT and other tools with that knowledge that we are storytellers.
So I want you to think about that. This is also the first time I’ve tried a format like this. So let me know. Was this a more compelling episode than previous ones? I’d be really curious. I’ll be paying attention to the stats. I’ll also be paying attention to the output I get from Castmagic on this to see if it’s better than previous episodes.
But that is it for this episode of The Profitable Podcaster. I hope you enjoyed it.
If you are leveraging generative AI for your podcast, let me know. I’m @jcasabona on Twitter, or you can fill out the form at [profitablepodcaster.fm/feedback] if you want to get one deep dive into a popular Podcasters Workflow, their process every week. Sign up for my newsletter over at [podcastworkflows.com]. But that’s it for this episode.
Thanks so much for listening. And until next time. I can’t wait to see what you make.
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Joe Casabona
Podcast Systems Coach
Joe Casabona is a podcast and automation coach who helps coaches, course creators, and authors grow their podcasts into authority-building lead generators. He does that through expert-tested systems that come with 10 years experience podcasting, 15 years teaching, and over 20 years working the web.
I am one of the unholy people who commits the seasonal crime of listening to Christmas music too early. I get the itch around early November, but exercise restraint until a week before Thanksgiving.
Every year, I set aside some time to review and update both of my lists: the family-friendly one, and my personal list — a combination of classics and slightly more vulgar songs from my youth. This year, I came to a realization…
There are lots of artists on the list that I only listen to during the Christmas season — Leona Lewis, *NSYNC, and Bobby Helms to name a few.
These artists likely know there’s a specific part of the market that they could capture by having a Christmas song. And while Leona Lewis and *NSYNC at least had huge, international success before their Christmas songs, there are artists that are “primarily” known for their Christmas music, and have used that to grow their fanbase. Pentatonix and Michael Bublé1 come to mind.
There’s a reason musicians want to make a Christmas song, or entire album. They sell…to more people than just their niche audience.
We see this on YouTube all the time as well. A creator goes viral because they made a video that has wider appeal than their normal videos. This puts the creator on people’s radars, which can lead to steady, enjoyable growth after the viral effects go away.
As podcasters, the chances of our episodes going viral are pretty slim, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have our own “Christmas song” — that is, an episode that has wider appeal beyond our niche audience.
My First “Christmas Song”
I was lucky that my show saw some early success within my niche. I got some great guests, asked the right questions, and got early support from my community.
And I was happy to continue on that path — but I did want to do something special for Episode 100. A little over 2 years in and things were going extremely well.
So I had my friend Jeff Large turn the tables and interview me about what I’ve learned.
Now, Jeff is a great interviewer and teacher, so he was able to elicit some great answers from me. He even asked me a question I asked every guest at the time: “Do you have any trade secrets for us?”
I thought it was a great episode, but I was shocked by the stats. It was far and away the most popular episode for a long time, and showed me that people love behind the scenes content — people from all niches.
It was my first “Christmas song.”
All of the elements were there to make it a popular episode:
I had a guest and fellow podcaster who knocked it out of the park.
I was covering podcasting, as opposed to what I was covering at the time: WordPress Development.
It was behind the scenes content about how this idea happened, and continues to happen.
This doesn’t mean it was for everyone — but it was for an audience way bigger than my niche.
That kind of happened on accident, but it’s not a lesson I let slip away.
How to Find Your Christmas Song
So what should you do if you want to find your Christmas song?
The trick is to pick something that aligns to, but is not exclusively for, your audience.
You still want to fulfill the mission of your show, but you want to expand a bit.
Let’s look at our musical artists again. *NSYNC did a Christmas song, but it’s still in their genre — Pop. They didn’t try Rap or Country. You want to do the same thing for your show.
One of my most popular annual episodes is my Gift Guide episodes. It’s still for solopreneurs and creators, but there are a lot of people looking for gift ideas for loved ones, so that episode does very well. In fact, the 2023 version is leading my episodes in downloads over the first 30 days — despite not being out for 30 days yet.
Another episode that does well is my Yearly Theme episode, which I do in January.
More than just solopreneurs like to think about goal setting, and the idea of a Yearly Theme already has a big community behind it. So I make sure to produce those episodes every year, because they are an opportunity for growth.
A quick litmus test is to ask yourself these 2 questions:
“Is this topic helpful for my audience?”
“Is this topic only helpful for my audience?”
If the answer to 1 is yes, and 2 is no, you might have yourself a Christmas song.
#1 is crucially important, because you can likely come up with a topic that has mass appeal. Most things that are controversial and stated absolutely find a big audience.
But there’s a strong risk that you’ll alienate your current audience — the people that you serve for the rest of the year!
Use The Data You Have
The other thing you can do is use the data you have. I realized my 100th episode was a hit because I noticed it was getting listened to a lot more than my other episodes.
Leverage your podcast platform’s stats, and the data you see in Apple’s Podcasts Connect, to see what people are listening to, and get ideas from that.
If you usually talk about how runners can leverage their phone to create better habits, maybe you can talk about your favorite fitness apps, of how you use your Apple Watch.
This serves your audience of runners, but also appeals to the wider audience of aspirational exercisers.
Experiment!
The biggest and best thing you can do here is take action and experiment. Unlike the Christmas song, you have more than one shot per year to make a hit.
Every few months, try something different — a format or topic that might do well beyond your audience. Measure the data, and see what kind of feedback you get.
Then try again, and keep what works.
I am aware that Pentatonix won The Sing-Off and that’s how they got their contract, much like Bublé was around before his more broadly popular Christmas albums, but Christmas music has been the bread and butter for both of these artists. ↩
Have you ever wanted to start a podcast about your area of expertise, but you were scared off by all the time and effort required to make it? I’d like to introduce you to my friend, mini podcasting.
Mini podcasts are short — typically 20 minutes or under. The short duration appeals to both you as the host and to your listeners who are short on time. In that span, you can drop all of your knowledge on a given topic, educating your audience and showing off your smarts at the same time.
I cover the factors that make a mini podcast successful and attainable on an episode of Make Money Podcasting. Here are some of the key takeaways from the episode:
Mini podcasts are less daunting for the host. They prevent the dreaded “pod fade,” where you start a podcast with good intentions but can’t maintain staying power and trail off.
Making a mini podcast is easier than you think. With a sharp mission statement, laser-focused topics, and batched episodes on a schedule, production is a breeze.
You don’t need two-hour episodes to make money podcasting. Sponsors are just as interested in reaching your audience via shorter content. With a mini podcast, you can drive new traffic to your mailing list or draw new paid gigs.
So how do you get started? And more importantly, why should a mini podcast be part of your marketing strategy? I break it down for you into bite-sized pieces.
Reasons why you need a mini podcast
Your podcast doesn’t have to be long to be valuable. Let’s talk through some of the big wins of starting a short podcast.
Short podcast = less editing
A long-form interview show seems to be the most common kind of podcast out there. But is it always the best?
You have to prep your questions for a longer conversation and allow extra time for editing all the content. Inevitably, a guest might not be as concise as you need them to be, so you’ll spend a lot of time editing out irrelevant sidebars or “ums” and “ahs.”
With mini podcasting, you alone are the host and the guest. I want you to get on the mic, talk about your given topic for 20 minutes or less, and save the rest of the content for the next episode.
Now, let’s address pod fade.
You start a podcast. You’ve got an idea of what you want to talk about, how often, and when you’ll record. But then, things don’t exactly go according to plan. As with many new habits, the podcast falls to the wayside with other projects moving to the forefront.
With mini podcasting, you can seriously diminish the risk of pod fade. If you follow my guide here, you’ll be well on your way to creating and monetizing meaningful content for your followers.
🎙 Top tip: I like to use Descript to edit my mini podcast episodes. The editing tools are easy to use and lend themselves well to solo shows.
Showcase your expertise
On a mini podcast, it’s just you on the mic talking about the things that you know best. What does that make you? A thought leader in your subject area.
I’ve talked in the past about how providing helpful content builds an audience and deepens their trust in you as an authority. That’s exactly what a mini podcast is: a way for you to show what you know.
If 20 minutes sounds like an overwhelming amount of time, keep it simple. Pick your topic, outline what you know about it, turn on your mic, and let ‘er rip. You’d be surprised how much time you can fill when you get going on something you know well.
Episode batching is simple
With interview-style podcasts, batching is a tall order. Maintaining the emotional stamina to truly engage with your guests if you’re recording multiple episodes back-to-back in a single day is challenging. Even for an extrovert, that’s a lot of time to spend socializing.
I once tried to batch five podcast episodes with guests, and I can say with confidence that the quality tanked somewhere between the second and fifth interviews.
Not so with mini podcasts. You’re the host and the guest, and the time is so short that within a couple of hours, you could record several episodes of your podcast. That’s much easier to build into your schedule than hours of prep, recording, and editing for a standard-length podcast.
Short content is hot right now
Some of my favorite podcasts are multiple hours in length. But that doesn’t mean I always have the listening time to spare.
Let’s face it: Attention spans are short. TikTok and other social media apps have conditioned people to enjoy snippets of information rather than long lectures. Even for longer videos on the apps, the maximum length clocks in around three to 10 minutes.
A short time commitment gives your listeners the chance to fit your content into their lives. A short podcast could be the length of folding a load of laundry, a commute to the office, or a daily walk. Giving your audience a chance to hear you out quickly makes your message more likely to be heard.
How to make a mini podcast
Now that I’ve convinced you why you need to make a mini podcast, let’s dive into how to make it happen.
1. Start with a mission statement
You can’t start down a new road without a map. (Well, you can, but you’re more likely to get lost — and lose your following along the way.)
Dig deep into your knowledge bank. What do you know best? Come up with 20-25 topics that you could cover in under 20 minutes. Break them into smaller chunks as necessary.
Still stumped on how to file down the focus of your mini podcast? Check out my thoughts on this subject on an episode of Make Money Podcasting.
3. Record 3-4 episodes at a time
Mini podcasting is all about batching! Organizing your time this way makes it easier to tear through content quickly while still keeping the quality high.
If you’re ready to talk for 20 minutes on your given topic, go for it! Otherwise, I recommend shooting for 12-15 minutes of content to start. You can edit from there.
4. Release episodes on a schedule
A good cadence for releasing episodes is bi-weekly or weekly. Anything less might leave listeners wondering where you went, assuming they lost you to pod fade.
Even more importantly, sponsors won’t be interested in an inconsistent show.
If you’re recording three to four episodes in a batch session per month, that’s plenty of content to get you through that timeframe. And it will keep your audience coming back for more, excited for what you have to offer next.
How to monetize a mini podcast
Once you’ve landed on the topics and process for your mini podcast, it’s time to start monetizing. Here’s how to make money with your shorter show.
Have a clear call to action
You’ve got listeners. They’re here for the free, helpful, and short content you’re giving out. But they also think you’re smart and feel a connection to you. Why not close that loop with a clear call to action?
At a minimum, that can look like getting them to sign up for your mailing list. But don’t stop there if you have more content ready for the market. That could be a course, a book, a product, or a workshop.
It can also be helpful for the services or products you offer to have an “impulse buy” price point. If your call to action is for them to buy your book, $9.99 is a good price in that accessible range.
Your audience trusts you. You have products and services to offer them. Don’t be afraid to ask them what you really want to ask them!
Find a sponsor that aligns with your content
You might think that you need hours of content or a huge audience to attract a sponsor. But that’s just not true.
Go back to your podcast mission statement, and think about what kinds of sponsors might be trying to reach your audience.
Just because the content is short doesn’t mean the sponsor doesn’t want access to your listeners. In fact, your mini podcast might be an even better fit for your sponsor. Listeners won’t have to wade through lengthy content to get to the ad breaks — meaning they hear about the sponsor quicker.
🎙 Top tip: I recently had Alexis Grant as a guest on How I Built It to discuss how niche content brings laser focus to what kinds of sponsors to seek. If you want more guidance on how to make that niche content, you can find more on this topic here.
Funnel your audience to paid gigs
Just as the call the action should be clear and simple, your audience also might be interested in hiring you to share your expertise elsewhere through speaking engagements or podcast appearances.
Invite your listeners to reach out on your contact form to continue the conversation and engage with your topics. Again, joining your mailing list can be a great way to stay in touch if they don’t have specific feedback now.
Keeping the lines of communication open will open the door to more chances for you to get paid for your expertise — and a whole new world of opportunities.
Just in time for Podcast Movement 2022, YouTube dropped their latest big news: They’re adding podcasting to their offerings. This was a surprise to no one who had been following the podcasting scene for a while.
As a podcaster, I don’t want you to panic. I don’t want you to roll your eyes either, thinking you’ll just skip podcasting on YouTube. There’s money to be made podcasting on everyone’s favorite video platform, and I’ll give you the tips you need to get started.
On an episode of Make Money Podcasting, I cover what we know so far about podcasting on YouTube. Here are some of the key takeaways from the show:
Set up a YouTube podcast channel with playlists for your episodes and clips.
Make your episode titles catchy for YouTube. Steer clear of the “Episode Number, Guest Name” format. Draw people in with a snappy headline that entices them to click and learn more.
From now on, ask your podcast guests to record video as well as audio. This goes for your solo shows, too!
Making money podcasting from YouTube is simple with YouTube’s built-in monetization framework. I also give you three other strategies to make money through your YouTube podcast.
Setting up your YouTube podcast channel
The setup of a YouTube podcast channel is relatively simple. Creating playlists breaks up your content into categories for your audience and works well with YouTube’s algorithms.
For your full episodes, create a playlist with the same name as your podcast. Load them in chronological or reverse chronological order, whichever makes sense for your content. For example, if you have a series that builds on itself, chronological order is the way to go. But if your content is best consumed starting with the most recent updates, place it in reverse chronological order.
In addition to your full episodes, shorter clips are a nice way to give newer viewers a taste of what you offer. Make a playlist of clips, using the most engaging snippets from your shows.
Another thing that people like to see is behind-the-scenes videos, whether they’re in the clips playlist or a separate list. These tours can shed light on your podcasting setup, your routine, or anything else you think your audience would like to see about how the magic happens.
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Make money podcasting — on YouTube!
If you do any other business on YouTube outside of podcasting, you already know that YouTube has built-in tools to help you make money. There are a few options for what YouTube offers organically.
First, as always on YouTube, ads can be built in. You don’t have to sell your ad space. It’s already there for you if you want it! Keep in mind, there are some requirements here. As of today, it’s 1,000 subscribers and 4,000 total watch hours. Not there yet? By following the other tips in this article, you’ll be able to reach those metrics.
YouTube could potentially start offering audio-only ads to pair with podcasting, instead of their usual dynamic ads.
Another way to make money is to create sponsored content videos, where a sponsor pays for you to discuss something about their product as it relates to your content.
Memberships are also available on YouTube. In this case, people sign up for a subscription and pay for bonus content with a pay button. Through the subscription, you can offer livestreams and other videos for members only. Superchats or superstickers are another option to gain revenue from your YouTube views. These features offer a way for viewers to tip you or say “thanks” for your content.
Finally, if you’ve got content that supports selling merch, by all means, sell your merch! Your podcast t-shirts, bags, and stickers are another way for your podcast to make money, and YouTube is another way for you to reach your audience. Connect your merch store to YouTube, and you’re on your way!
Advice to start off on the right foot
To achieve YouTube podcasting success, you need video viewers and channel subscribers. Here’s how to bring viewers to your channel and how to keep them coming back for more.
Draw the people in
Your podcast’s YouTube channel is the place to flex your marketing capabilities. Pay attention to this important tip: Do not simply use “Episode Number, Guest Name” as the format for naming your podcast video.
Think about it: As someone searching on YouTube, would you ever know a podcast’s episode number? You might know the name of the guest you’re looking for, perhaps. But more likely than not, you’d be searching, instead, for something like “how to catch bass without a lure,” rather than “Bass Fishing Boys Episode 36 featuring Charlie Wilson.”
Put simply, pose the question that your episode answers — and that’s your title.
Bring in the art
If you have a custom thumbnail for your episode to use as your image, go ahead and use it! If not, no big deal. Use your show’s artwork as the image.
Keep in mind, YouTube is not checking an RSS feed to bring in your episodes. You have to be proactive in moving your episodes over, and I’ll show you what tools can help you do that below.
Making the not-visual medium, visual
It’s constantly said that podcasting isn’t a visual medium, but with YouTube entering the chat, that could be changing. You might not have video footage for your back catalog of episodes, and that’s fine.
But going forward, I want you to video-record all of your podcasts. If you have a guest, get their permission to record as well. A word to the wise: Don’t use Zoom to record your podcast. Riverside is a great solution for audio/video recording, and there are other similar options on the market.
The right tools for the job
Maybe everything I’ve said so far convinces you that you need to put your podcast on YouTube (if so, great!), but the effort required to get the show posted is a little daunting. That’s okay!
Let’s say your podcast isn’t new. You have an extensive back catalog of episodes built up. Instead of throwing all those away and only posting new podcast episodes to YouTube, I’ve pulled together some tools to make it easy to get your old content working for you, fast.
Back it up the old-fashioned way
For your back catalog, you can create videos of your audio-only episodes by using the show’s thumbnail as the visual. Two tools that can do that for you are FusionCast for Mac users and Descript for all other operating systems. These have cool features like letting you use the Ken Burns documentary-style zoom and fade to make the visual more engaging.
Don’t exasperate — automate!
If doing things manually isn’t your speed, I recommend a couple of programs for getting your podcast episodes straight to YouTube without you having to devote massive amounts of time or money. In fact, you may already be using one of these programs to produce your podcast.
Currently, CastHost will automatically send your episodes to YouTube on their mid-tier subscription plan. As an added bonus, when I used CastHost for my podcast, the tool loaded my episodes into a playlist for me. That takes care of my first recommendation to get your episodes in a playlist without you having to do anything extra!
Another app that connects your podcast hosting to YouTube is Repurpose.io. I’ve also heard from other creators that Adobe’s Premiere Pro has similar functionality. I’m giving multiple options here in the event that you’re already using one of these programs. If you are, it’ll be a near-seamless transition to getting your podcast to YouTube.
So what are you waiting for? Get out there and push your excellent content to YouTube to start making more money podcasting today. And while you’re making new episodes, go ahead and get that camera rolling for even more engaging content.
🎙 Top tip: Still not sure how YouTube can help you as a podcaster? Check out my YouTube video on this very topic. While you’re there, like and subscribe for all the latest updates!
Today’s contributor is Frank Racioppi, writer and editor of his publication, Ear Worthy.
For indie podcasters, capturing and maintaining the most listeners is a key indicator of success. First, listeners have to find that indie podcast. That step alone transforms the degree of difficulty into a math problem of improbability.
Second, indie podcasters have to hang onto to the listeners who sample their show. The abandon rate here is exceedingly high.
This second reason — listener retention — is the focus of this article.
Listeners can drop into a podcast at any time in the podcast’s lifecycle. TV shows know this, which is why they often have show recaps to help those new listeners. Podcasts often don’t do this, largely because they don’t have to unless, of course, it’s a true-crime podcast or serialized podcast such as Stolen: The Search For Jermain.
Let’s examine several reasons why podcasts do not retain the listeners that sample the show.
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# 1: Too much happy banter that only loyal listeners will care about.
I recently listened to a sports podcast for the first time, which had two men and one woman as co-hosts. It has been around for several years, so I thought I’d give it a chance. After listening to two episodes, I’m convinced this podcast doesn’t want or need new listeners.
Why? First, it took eight minutes to address their first sports topic, which was about Step Curry. In those eight minutes, the co-hosts talked about their weekend activities with sentences such as:
“And you know what I’ve said before about brewery tours.” The new listener doesn’t.
“We both know how you feel about talking during the football game.” The new listener doesn’t know this, either.
“I have to tell you what my cat did this weekend.” I love cats. I have one named Moogie. But I don’t know you and I want to hear about Curry and your other topics — NFL rankings, Ovechkin, and the Australian Open predictions.
As a podcaster, trying to satisfy your current audience and attract a new audience means being measured is paramount. Sure, you want the audience to get to know you with these personal anecdotes, but you don’t include anything that requires prior knowledge. Yes, you want a level of happy banter, especially on a sports podcast where I think it’s mandated, but when the pitter-patter of happy talk makes up 20 percent of your podcast, you may want to trim it down.
An indie podcast like Double Take handles this well. The co-hosts, Jess and Jenni, do a little happy banter at the beginning that lasts no more than a minute and often they offer context to their remarks. These women know that listeners came for the review of streaming shows and they deliver.
Matt Gilhooly of The Life Shift podcast is similarly concise at the show’s beginning. This superb indie podcast presents candid conversations with people about the pivotal moments that changed their lives forever. Matt knows that listeners are downloading or streaming to hear the stories of his guests — their trauma and their heroic journey of overcoming that trauma.
# 2: Not explaining what your podcast is about in the show’s beginning
Let me use Don’t Drink The Milk as an example of what to do. In its October 23 episode, the show’s host Rachel Stewart begins with how “the missionary position” is pronounced in several languages. Then, she explains the topic, gives a trigger warning and then says, “This is Don’t Drink The Milk about the curious history of things.”
Ta-Da. Right there, Stewart has teased the episode’s topic and told us what the podcast is about. Now, if you are a loyal listener, you’ve heard this intro multiple times and probably no longer pay attention. However, to that first-time listener, that brief explanation of what the podcast is about is monetization gold.
It’s baked into podcasting’s structure that every show and episode begins with intro music, unless it’s horror podcast, in which a werewolf is howling. In every show and every episode, a brief description of the podcast should be a “must-have.”
An interview show like CooperTalkusesthis phrase as its intro: Steve’s opening line of every episode: “I’m Steve Cooper and I’m only as hip as my guests” is the kind of signature line many podcasters would die for.
Salad With A Side Of Fries does this perfectly. In a recent episode with guest Sarah Thomas, host Jenn Trepeck orchestrates the perfect beginning. First, she starts with a teaser from her guest about muscle mass loss as we age, then appropriately bouncy intro music plays as Trepeck says, “Welcome to Salad With A Side Of Fries, I’m your host, Jenn Trepeck, talking wellness and weight loss for real life.”
Podcasts likeTrashy Divorcesand What A Creep also do a nice job of explaining their entire premise up front. Both shows have a simple, self-explanatory premise, yet they take the time to explain it in every episode. Why? To attract and retain new listeners.
For every podcast that explains its objective or raison d’être in its opening so that new listeners can latch on to the show, there are hundreds of indie podcasts (and good ones at that) that simply begin the show as if you, a new listener, knows about the show’s premise, the people (co-hosts) speaking, and why you should care about their latest misadventures with potty training their new Goldendoodle.
Comedy, movie, and sports podcasts are excellent at throwing numerous voices at listeners with no name attribution, and then spending precious minutes on inside jokes that only established listeners will understand and possibly laugh at.
Do I care if Skip lost all his money on his DraftKings NFL bets last weekend? No, because, as a new listener, I don’t even know who Skip is.
# 3: Use Teasers to generate interest and Segments to organize the episode
Consider Multispective, which is a podcast that shares deeply personal stories of triumph through tribulations.On the show, host Jennica Sadhwani plays a clip to hook the audience on this current episode, then she explains the show’s premise, and then the emotive intro music plays.
The teaser acts as a podcaster’s honey for its busy bee listeners. A strong teaser will induce listeners to react with: “I have to listen to this episode.”
In my previous example, Salad With A Side Of Fries begins with a teaser, and it’s a good one about losing muscle mass. I do not want to be a “flabby Frank” so I listened to the entire episode, and I’m sure plenty of others will and did.
Segments act as an organizing device. On the September 23rd episode of Podcast Workflows, host Joe Casabona discussed the utility of segments in podcast episodes. You can listen to that episode here.
In the episode, Joe observes: “To create a more engaging show, think about incorporating segments. Just like how late-night shows have defined parts, segmenting your podcast can make it more consumable and structured. You can dedicate parts of your episode to different topics or formats, such as opening monologues, interviews, and specific segments tailored to your audience’s interests.”
Have you listened to an interview podcast that ran for more than one hour? Interview podcasters can offer listeners a map to the interview by including segments. Before a midroll ad or just as a segue, a host can forecast to listeners what topic they’ll be discussing in the next part of the interview.
Joe adds: “If you’re worried that solo episodes might become stale, develop a clear structure. For instance, discuss a main topic, then showcase an interesting tool related to that topic, and finish with an automation tip. This keeps the solo content engaging and valuable.”
In short, teasers draw in listeners while segments keep listeners grounded in the structure of the show.
# 4 Comprehensive and well-written show notes can spark interest
Everyone knows what a Joe Rogan podcast will offer. The episodes of Call Her Daddy typically include details about host Cooper’s personal life, numerous sentences that includes the word F**k somewhere in the episode, or a celebrity oversharing about their privileged life.
The point is that these podcasts are so well-known that you know what to expect. There’s no need to expend resources to attract new listeners. Social media, word of mouth, and the culture at large does that job for them.
Most indie podcasts have to balance the needs of their loyal audience with the demand to attract new listeners. There are some indie podcasts that manage those two often competing goals with guile and skill, while others seem to pray that new listeners will somehow find them among the tens of thousands of podcasts available.
The written show notes can act as a powerful attractant for new listeners. Consider the show notes on Apple podcasts for The Murder Sheet:
“The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. Its first season on restaurant related homicides, and features miniseries on the Burger Chef murders. If you’re looking for thoughtful, in-depth coverage of lesser-known crimes, this is the true crime podcast for you.”
It’s specific, and detailed enough so that new listeners browsing for a new true-crime podcast would stop and consider. By contrast, here’s the show notes from an unnamed true-crime podcast.
“A true-crime podcast for you.” That’s it. No detail, other than it’s about true crime. And, the podcaster thinks it’s for you. Hmmm.
A podcast trailer acts like coming attractions for a movie or like a TV commercial highlighting a TV show. However, a trailer is either a once in a podcast lifetime device, or, better yet, a once a season or introducing a miniseries device.
Show notes are like a podcaster’s roadside billboard. They’re always there. When they’re written to entice, engage, or even enrage, they can be a powerful tool for listener retention and organic audience growth.
Here are the show notes to an outstanding new indie podcast, Why Wars Happened — Season one, episode 21.
“This episode dives deep into the events leading up to Bacon’s Rebellion, a pivotal moment in Virginia’s history. We explore the escalating tensions between Virginia colonists and the Susquehannock tribe, detailing the attacks, Governor Berkeley’s strange decisions on how to respond to the attacks, and the colonies’ desperate cries for protection. This episode also shows how Nathaniel Bacon, rose to become a rebel leader against the governor’s inaction, setting the stage for a much larger conflict. Tune in to understand the complexities and motivations behind one of America’s early rebellions.”
Let’s assess what host Emily Ross has accomplished here. First, she has not forgotten to announce the basic premise of the podcast, which she does in the last sentence. Second, the show notes are not a Wikipedia entry. They’re concise and she uses strong words to attract listeners. Words like: pivotal, tensions, desperate cries, rebel leader, larger conflict, rebellions.“
For Ross, it doesn’t matter that her podcast is 21 episodes deep into the first season. She’s not given up the fight to attract new listeners, even this far into the show’s freshman season.
In the Podcasting Tech podcast, host Mathew Passy writes a flawless first sentence to his show notes. “Have you ever wondered if your podcast could be more than a passion project—could it actually become a profitable business?
Passy asks a question that is first order of importance for all podcasters. It’s a first-class technique for generating interest and attracting ears to the show.
There are now several methods for enabling AI to write show notes for a podcast. While a computer program can certainly develop serviceable show notes for any podcast, I don’t think it is able to top Passy’s existential question.
One of the best podcasts at hooking new listeners while entertaining established listeners is Nerdpreneur. Here are Frank Bailey and Chris Saunders’s goals: “At Nerdpreneur we have fun conversations with people turning their weird passion into a successful business! We interview entrepreneurs from around the world to discover the hacks, tools, and mindsets that turn nerd passion into full-time income.”
The Nerdpeneur podcast begins with a clip from the nerdy entrepreneur being featured and interviewed on the episode. Then, in a stroke of brilliance and musical and lyrical creativity, the intro music is a cool, hip-hop song that explains the objective of the podcast.
Developing a successful indie podcasts often seems to be a Sisyphean task. After the sweat of creating the podcast, then bringing it to life and distributing it, the indie podcaster now must enter the life-or-death arena of people discovering your podcast. If that happens, then an indie podcaster must attract new listeners while keeping his initial audience. That’s like juggling bowling balls while riding a motor scooter around the Arc De Triomphe in Paris.
The tools mentioned in this article may be beneficial in aiding and abetting those podcasting goals. If they do not, please feel free to message me: “You’re full of shit.” The staff will take that under advisement.
And while I spent the entirety of the “Present” article last year talking about AI, I prefer not to do that again. Instead, we’ll look at the impact of current trends on podcasting — we want a fuller picture of how things are, so we can transform ourselves into the best podcasters we can be.
But first, I want to address some predictions I made.
Assessing Last Year’s Predictions
Last year for the Ghost of Podcast Future, I made some predictions, and I wish to assess them quickly:
Downloads will matter less. I think this is true. Many professionals across the industry talk about other metrics, such as engagement and completion time, as better measures of your podcast’s health.
Podcast ads (as we know them) will take a hit. I don’t think this came true. In-fact, they may have gotten worse. Some iHeart podcasts I listen to have 3-4 minutes of dynamically inserted preroll ads. It’s bad.
We’ll see some podcast listening app consolidation. This is definitely true. We said goodbye to several podcast listening apps, including Google Podcasts and Samsung Podcasts. Spotify and YouTube are becoming even more prominent.
Podcasters will have to get more creative with content. OK, OK. This is basically always true.
So what does all of this mean for Podcast’s Present? I picked these predictions because I felt by now they would be the present. And I think I was pretty close.
Let’s take downloads for example — or, really, podcast analytics at large.
What’s Going on With Podcast Analytics
I was going to dedicate an entire article to this for a reason I absolutely didn’t see coming: both Voxalyze and Chartable shut down this year.
It’s clear that 3rd party podcast analytics is a tough industry — in part because downloads are the only sure thing you can get from a 3rd party.
I should note here that I’m not an expert in this space. I’m sure there are services that have lots of other tracking to gather more info, but the point is counting a ping to the prefix is the only thing a 3rd party would know for sure.
And with Spotify and YouTube in the mix, the analytics experience is even more fractured. If you want to get a full picture of your podcast, you need to check 4 places:
Your podcast host (RSS.com, Transistor, Captivate, etc.)
Apple Podcasts
Spotify for Creators
YouTube (if your show is there)
Your podcast host can give you a lot of great information. RSS.com, which has the best analytics of any podcast host I’ve personally used*, has heat maps, granular location data, and great comparisons.
But if you want demographics, completion rates, or other platform-specific data, you need to go to Apple Podcasts, Spotify for Creators, and YouTube.
In fact, you have to go to YouTube for any analytics from them. Views on YouTube don’t show up in your podcast host’s analytics.
The same thing goes for Spotify if you upload a video for your show there.
It’s Really Confusion
I was talking to a friend who launched her podcast recently, and I was giving her the whole run down. She was asking me about the “release window” she was seeing in her analytics dashboard. I informed her that Transistor.fm is the only one I’m aware of that does that specific window, which is basically the first 2 calendar days the episode is out.
That means if you release episodes at different times, the “release window” measurement is different.
It’s probably not going to get any easier, either. YouTube and Spotify continue to innovate in this space. Apple, in my humble opinion, does not.
And while there are certifications podcast hosts can get, not everyone gets them, so it’s far from standard. They also change frequently. Plus, I’m convinced they are there to serve Dynamic Ad Insertion more than anything.
But analytics isn’t the only aspect of Podcast Present that’s contributing to some confusion (or maybe debate) in the space.
How Do We Discover Podcasts?
Over the summer, I sat in one of the few talks I actually attended at Podcast Movement. It was Tom Webster, and he was giving a talk about The Podcast Landscape. There were two datapoints I found interesting:
Personal recommendations remain the most common way people discover podcasts.
Outside of that, respondents indicated YouTube was their primary method of discovery…by a lot.
My personal experience with Gen-Z from two years ago indicated that Spotify was their preferred app of choice, though that may not be the case anymore.
In any case, the landscape is changing. YouTube is growing in the podcast space, and even if its popularity is currently exaggerated, it’s not to be ignored.
Spotify appears to be suggesting podcasts that upload video more than just audio, too.
This is concerning to long-time podcasters because, as I covered yesterday in The Ghost of Podcast Past, RSS is crucial to the survival of podcasting.
But, as Tom Webster said in a recent blog post, we as podcasters need to be where the people are, and that’s Spotify and YouTube along with via RSS.
He does have something to say to podcast app developers:
This is where I come back to Dave Winer’s comment above and what could easily be overlooked: the part where he calls upon the developers of podcast clients to innovate more. He’s 1000% right! If we want open RSS to survive in some iteration, there have to be more compelling audience-based reasons to use RSS-driven podcast clients.
I believe my podcast app of choice, Overcast, is falling behind in this regard. The developer, Marco Arment, has reportedly said he’s not adding Podcasting 2.0 features because people aren’t asking for them (though I haven’t found anything he’s written on it).
It’s true that the app doesn’t support even some of the most basic features, like displaying custom episode artwork in your feed, or transcripts.
And yes — most listeners wouldn’t say, “I want Podcasting 2.0 features.” But they can tell the difference between a feature-rich app and a lacking one.
As Webster said, if we want RSS to win the lion’s share of podcast listeners, the experience has to be good.
But even more challenging are the podcasters who firmly believe, “If it’s not RSS, it’s not a podcast.”
While I understand the sentiment, this perspective risks overlooking how podcasting has evolved. This mindset can unintentionally limit a podcast’s potential growth and accessibility.
Spotify and YouTube have done a lot to bring podcasts to more people. And much like Bob Cratchit toasts Scrooge as, “the founder of the feast,” we should be happy, while also being vigilant, about that.
Instead of focusing on rigid definitions, we should tell people, especially those new to podcasting, why RSS is so great — how it protects us by keeping our medium open for everyone, not subject to a single tech company.
Disclosure: I am the RSS.com Evangelist, but I stand by my assessment of their analytics.
A couple of things happened to me over the past week that have made me think a lot about pre-production planning and tweaking your recordings to save you a TON of time.
The first is: I’m adding video — proper video — to Streamlined Solopreneur.
I’ve held off on this for a long time because I didn’t see the value in hiring a video editor to basically do the same edits as my audio editor.
But my audio editor (hey, Joel!) offers video editing now, and I’m excited to introduce it.
I’ve never felt that side-by-side videos were compelling enough to watch, but I’ve been creating a lot more of them lately.
The other was a coaching call I did with Alex of Siren Affiliates/Partnership.fm last week.
